REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 98, Issue 10- new videos

Mark Riley the_rileys1 at verizon.net
Tue May 7 20:45:16 CDT 2013


I took some friends up for rides on Sunday and posted some new flying pictures and videos. Good stuff to get into the mood for flying now that the weather is getting nicer. Less than 100 days to Oshkosh!  Address is marksvelocity.blogspot.com.
On May 7, 2013, at 8:22 PM, reflector-request at tvbf.org wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re:  Logging CC trips (Jim Kanter)
>   2. Re:  Logging CC trips (Clayton Chase)
>   3. Re:  Logging CC trips (Scott Baker)
>   4. Re:  Logging CC trips (steve korney)
>   5. Re:  Logging CC trips (Scott Durham)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 19:25:27 -0400
> From: Jim Kanter <jim at d-film.com>
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Logging CC trips
> Message-ID:
> 	<CA+n2HHOhMcZxqk=rmh3nS=+nzWvbsdSvdk78sMS5p36ygxbz_A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> I just log the trips over 50nm. That way I have a correct running total
> when I go for my Commercial certificate (and possibly my ATP.)
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> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 16:47:38 -0700
> From: Clayton Chase <chasec at gmail.com>
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Logging CC trips
> Message-ID:
> 	<CABDq-0hN5d3YjODErABEHdDoy7zbxPnAwC+Tr+=5a0FExiDMow at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> In general, you are only required to log experience for currency or meet
> the requirements of a rating, as per 14CFR 61.51(a) (Pilot Logbooks, I've
> pasted the text below) so unless you are going for a rating you don't need
> to log cross country time at all.  But if you choose to do so, you must use
> the definition of Cross Country time which is in 14CFR 61.1(b)(4)
> (Applicability and definitions, Cross-country time, I've pasted the text
> below)
> 
> The basic four elements are:*
> Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;**
> Conducted in an aircraft;**
> That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and**
> That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation
> aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing
> point.*
> 
> So as long as you meet those requirements, you can log cross-country time,
> however if you are required to have specific cross-country experience
> logged for a rating (e.g. private, commercial, instrument, ATP) you may
> need to have flights that meet specific requirements in addition to just
> those four elements.  Specifically in 61.1(4)(ii)(B) (pasted below) for the
> aeronautical experience requirements for private, commercial or instrument
> it must also involve a point of landing that was at least a straight-line
> distance of more than 50NM from the original point of departure. 25NM for
> Sport Pilot and Rotorcraft, 15NM for Powered Parachute. So as a commercial
> airplane pilot applicant, I could log all flights that met the basic four
> elements as cross country, but I would also have to show that the flights I
> use to meet the aeronautical requirements listed in 61.129 also involve a
> point of landing that was 50NM or further away.   That would be a total
> pain in the rear to separate but would be legal.  I recommend that students
> (and everybody, honestly) only log as cross-country those flights that meet
> 61.1.(4)(i) AND 61.1.(4) (ii)(B).
> 
> I personally only log as cross country flights that meet both even though I
> could log all flights where I land somewhere other than the departure
> airport.   I do log cross-country time even though there is no requirement
> that I do so.
> 
> Clear as lexan with duct tape all over it?  :)
> 
> ? 61.1   Applicability and definitions.1-3 not shown - Clay Chase
> 
> (4) Cross-country time means?
> 
> (i) Except as provided in paragraphs (b)(4)(ii) through (b)(4)(vi) of this
> section, time acquired during flight?
> 
> (A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;
> 
> (B) Conducted in an aircraft;
> 
> (C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure;
> and
> 
> (D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic
> navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the
> landing point.
> 
> (ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements
> (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate
> (except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot
> certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising
> recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under ? 61.101 (c),
> time acquired during a flight?
> 
> (A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
> 
> (B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line
> distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of
> departure; and
> 
> (C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic
> navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the
> landing point.
> 
> ? 61.51   Pilot logbooks.
> 
> (a) Training time and aeronautical experience. Each person must document
> and record the following time in a manner acceptable to the Administrator:
> 
> (1) Training and aeronautical experience used to meet the requirements for
> a certificate, rating, or flight review of this part.
> 
> (2) The aeronautical experience required for meeting the recent flight
> experience requirements of this part.
> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 07 May 2013 20:09:29 -0400
> From: Scott Baker <scottb33333 at gmail.com>
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Logging CC trips
> Message-ID: <518997B9.4000807 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
> 
> On 5/7/2013 7:47 PM, Clayton Chase wrote:
>> 
>> (4) Cross-country time means---
>> 
>> (i) Except as provided in paragraphs (b)(4)(ii) through (b)(4)(vi) of 
>> this section, time acquired during flight---
>> 
>> (A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;
>> 
>> (B) Conducted in an aircraft;
>> 
>> (C) _That includes a landing at a point other than the point of 
>> departure_;
>> 
> 
> Interesting note regarding the logging of cross country time ...
> Dick Rutan's and Jeana Yeagers around the world flight in the Model 76 
> Voyager, having flown non-stop over 26,366 statute miles, is considered, 
> by FAA definition, a "local flight" since the only takeoff and landing 
> during the flight occurred at Mojave Airport.
> 
> :-)
> Scott B
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 00:20:10 +0000
> From: steve korney <s_korney at hotmail.com>
> To: Reflector Reflector <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Logging CC trips
> Message-ID: <BAY178-W132032748AAF32451FCE81E7BB0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> Good one Scott...
> 
> I'm sure the FAA made a special waiver for that one...
> 
> Steve 
> 
> Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 20:09:29 -0400
> From: scottb33333 at gmail.com
> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Logging CC trips
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>    On 5/7/2013 7:47 PM, Clayton Chase
>      wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>      (4) Cross-country time
>        means?
>      (i) Except as provided in paragraphs (b)(4)(ii) through
>        (b)(4)(vi) of this section, time acquired during flight?
>      (A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;
>      (B) Conducted in an aircraft;
>      (C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point
>          of departure;
> 
> 
> 
>    Interesting note regarding the logging of cross country time ...
> 
>    Dick Rutan's and Jeana Yeagers around the world flight in the Model
>    76 Voyager, having flown non-stop over 26,366 statute miles, is
>    considered, by FAA definition, a "local flight" since the only
>    takeoff and landing during the flight occurred at Mojave Airport.
> 
> 
> 
>    :-)
> 
>    Scott B
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 19:20:52 -0500
> From: "Scott Durham" <bsdurham at charter.net>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Logging CC trips
> Message-ID: <757EBE02BDC841DCB0C89868BCD9B9BE at SCOTTNETBOOK>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> Except ATP
> 
> From: steve korney 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2013 5:51 PM
> To: Reflector Reflector 
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Logging CC trips
> 
> It may be logged as CC time as a private pilot, but it doesn't look like you can use it to log time for a new certificate of any kind...
> 
> 
> 
>> (ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements 
>> (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate 
>> (except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot 
>> certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising 
>> recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under ? 61.101 (c), 
>> time acquired during a flight?
> 
>> (A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
>> 
>> (B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line 
>> distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of 
>> departure; and
>> 
>> (C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation 
>> aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing 
>> point.
> 
> 
> Steve 
> 
> 
>> From: bsdurham at charter.net
>> To: reflector at tvbf.org
>> Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 17:22:07 -0500
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Logging CC trips
>> 
>> FAR 61.1(b)4
>> 
>> (4) Cross-country time means?
>> 
>> (i) Except as provided in paragraphs (b)(4)(ii) through (b)(4)(vi) of this 
>> section, time acquired during flight?
>> 
>> (A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;
>> 
>> (B) Conducted in an aircraft;
>> 
>> (C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; 
>> and
>> 
>> (D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation 
>> aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing 
>> point.
>> 
>> (ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements 
>> (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate 
>> (except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot 
>> certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising 
>> recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under ? 61.101 (c), 
>> time acquired during a flight?
>> 
>> (A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
>> 
>> (B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line 
>> distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of 
>> departure; and
>> 
>> (C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation 
>> aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing 
>> point.
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: John Abraham
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2013 5:09 PM
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Logging CC trips
>> 
>> That is true. You can use the CC time for the ATP XC requirement. Richard G. 
>> Chime in here?
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> On May 7, 2013, at 5:55 PM, David Rene Dugas <renedugas at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Unfamiliar with that change.
>>> 
>>> Rene' Dugas
>>> Sent from an Apple.
>>> 
>>> On May 7, 2013, at 3:48 PM, John Dibble <aminetech at bluefrog.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Just had a BFR and learned a few things. When I trained for my private 
>>>> pilot, I was told that flights had to be 50 nm to be logged as CC. Now 
>>>> I'm told that any flight to another airport, no matter how close, is 
>>>> logged as CC once one has a private pilot license.
>>>> 
>>>> John
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> To change your email address, visit 
>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
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>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
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