REFLECTOR: Mogas

John Abraham john at velocityaircraft.com
Sun Jul 7 10:26:27 CDT 2013 

Ron

We had a plane at the shop that the sump without Jeffco started weeping and the only difference was fuel that had ethanol in it. However the fuel injector cleaner they use in fuels is also an issue even with Jeffco. 

John

On Jul 6, 2013, at 10:42 PM, Velocity <velocityxl at fastmail.fm> wrote:

> I am not trying to be combative I just have not seen any real evidence that ethanol is the culprit .
> a lot of the stuff I have seen is mostly hear say . I even thought it was ethanol that messed up my sump tank
> and sensor  than after some more thought and testing found it to be the fuel injector cleaner 
> I used. I know of another builders that thought that ethanol was the reason for all there woes but now
> also blame it on the carb cleaner.  I have soaked parts in Gas from BP Mobil and Shell gas  satin gas with ethanol in them and have  not seen any  break down of the foam or fiber glass yet. Now the rubber
> braking down because of ethanol I have zero experience and  or done any testing. For one there are so
> many chemical makeups of rubber I would have to do a lot more testing than I care to even try.
> 
> Now I have never flown with any thing but 100 LL and as of right now do not plan on
> any thing but 100 LL for now. I say the jury is still out on much of the gas related 
> problems.
> 
> My 2 Cents
> 
> Ron
> 
> 
> On 7/6/2013 4:18 PM, Richard J. Gentil wrote:
>> Ethanol is very corrosive, it will freeze under certain conditions, it can separate from the gasoline in certain conditions and make your engine ingest pure ethanol. 
>> 
>> In my BMW motorcycle ethanol ate the seals in my fuel pump, my idle actuator turned to a sticky gel and destroyed my fuel level sensor. It is not something I want in my plane when my life is on the line. 
>> 
>> Richard 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone 5
>> 
>> On Jul 5, 2013, at 7:37 PM, Velocity <velocityxl at fastmail.fm> wrote:
>> 
>>> Where I see Ethanol not being good in the gas . I do not see how it can be blamed for so many problems 
>>> when it is used in millions of cars for so many years. And I have not any of these problems not showing up in any of my cars. There must be another common item that we are missing.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Ron
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 7/4/2013 12:25 AM, Kurt Winker wrote:
>>>> Noel, 
>>>> 
>>>> There Are two easy ways that I know of. 
>>>> 
>>>> 1: get a jar (pickle, olive, etc).  Mark a line on the outside, 1" up from the bottom. Fill to that line with water. 
>>>> Put fuel in to near the top, cover jar and shake. 
>>>> Set on a flat surface for 5 minutes.
>>>> If the water level moves up from that line, or the jar stays frothy or opaque, there is some Degree  of alcohol in the fuel. 
>>>> The alcohol holds the water in suspension and makes it appear cloudy or as if the water level moves up. 
>>>> If It is clear and the water level is the same after that time, no ethanol. 
>>>> 
>>>> The second one is even easier:  put fuel in a jar.
>>>> Add a couple drops of water soluble food coloring to the sample. 
>>>> If the food coloring sinks to the bottom in droplets, then there is no alcohol to dissolve it. 
>>>> If the sample changes color (as a whole) then there is alcohol that is dissolving the coloring. 
>>>> 
>>>> Both of these are published by the EAA, and are available on their site. They really work, and are mandatory in my mind. alcohol is one of the nastiest solvents for rubber, sealants and coatings that there is...Don't chance it! Test always. 
>>>> 
>>>> Kurt. 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> 
>>>> On Jul 3, 2013, at 21:31, Gattenby <gattenby at tulsaconnect.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm 
>>>>> How do you check for ethanol ?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Noel
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 3, 2013, at 9:42 PM, Kurt Winker <nmflyer1 at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Nowhere in there did I see where he checked to make sure it was ethanol free! Damn big mistake. I have been running "clean" MoGas in the Cherokee 235 and the cub. Never a problem...but I check EVERY batch before I put it in an airplane. I have had stations say was no ethanol, only to find it in there...I have also had stations that were previously clean, find out they got a load with Ethanol in it.... 
>>>>>> I have also had this fuel in the Velocity tanks for some time with no problems.. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Kurt... 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 3, 2013, at 15:40, "dennis.doc" <dennis.doc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Anyone had this happen? Let us know your experience. I've only used LL100 for taxi or flying. (Also, mogas not good for our tanks).Using only Mogas, this guy's fuel lines got a bad case of asthma. From Sonex builder:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dennis Martin
>>>>>>> 173 FGE Chevy V-6 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 2a Autopsy on fuel line
>>>>>>> Tue Jul 2, 2013 7:24 pm (PDT) . Posted by:                                 "sonex541" sonex541                                   Well after a long process of trying to figure out my problem , I took the fittings of each end , I'm convinced the auto fuel caused this problem , this plane has run 100 ll it's whole life , I wanted to run it a few months ago and went to my local brand name gas station and bought 6 gallons of fuel , I wasn't goin to fly with this fuel but just to run it every week or so during the winter months and get some heat and oil flowing , then when I would start flying It , i would drain it and put 100ll , from the fuel sitting in the fuel line it swelled the rubber inside the braided stainless hose , down to Probably 1/8 of an inch cutting of my fuel flow to the carb , causing the 2 gph fuel flow , . , it's amazing how much it swelled it up , especially closer to the ends were the fittings were threaded in , I cut hose in half and it's Probably down to 1/4th original diameter inside of that , 
>>>>>>> So cheap auto gas has caused me hours of grief and work , so me personally will never put that in any of my planes , ever 
>>>>>>> again!!!
>>>>>>> Adam Simmons 
>>>>>>> Sonex 541
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