REFLECTOR: Velocity MEL (Minimum Equipment List) -- One Broken Alternator

Scott Baker scottb33333 at gmail.com
Tue Jan 15 06:45:15 CST 2013


Mark,
Well said!  FAA personnel like to see a cooperative and helpful 
attitude.  That does not mean, however that one should roll over to the 
FAA's view point (especially when it might be wrong).
Bob - I think you have appropriate information to have a cordial and 
frank meeting with the FAA types and settle this thing without further ado.
Scott B.

On 1/14/2013 10:48 PM, Mark Magee wrote:
> Bob,
> If your meeting in person, make sure a take a box of donuts!
>
> Mark B. Magee
> N34XL
> Sent from IPhone 4S
>
> On Jan 14, 2013, at 9:05 PM, "Bob Jackson \(Jax Tech\)" 
> <bobj at jaxtechllc.com <mailto:bobj at jaxtechllc.com>> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Reiff!
>>
>> Reiff has answered (as summarized below) my original question about 
>> what equipment is required for E-AB certificated aircraft to fly IFR, 
>> and where in the FAA doc's is this guidance written:
>>
>>   * as indicated in the .pdf that Reiff attached from the EAA, the
>>     equipment included in FAR 91.205 for standard category
>>     certificates is the same and also applies to Experimental-Amateur
>>     Built certificated aircraft,
>>   * this guidance can be found in FAA Order 8130.2F Chg 3 effective
>>     18 Apr '07, as referenced and stated in the EAA linked below:
>>
>> http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/Order%208130.2F%20incorp%20with%20Chg%203.pdf
>>
>> Specifically with respect to my losing one of two installed 
>> generators/alternators question -- FAR 91.205(d)(7) states IFR 
>> operations require a "generator or alternator of adequate capacity", 
>> and FAA Change Order 8130.2F Chg 3 effective 18 Apr '07 says this 
>> requirement also applies not just to standard category certificated 
>> aircraft, but also to Experimental aircraft.
>>
>> So the answer I will give to the FAA Charlotte guy tomorrow is (as 
>> recommended by Scott Baker and others, and in compliance with the 
>> above audit trail)  "since either alternator in my Experimental 
>> provides adequate capacity for full IFR operations, I was in full 
>> compliance with the FAR and FAA reg's in flying back to Orlando on a 
>> single alternator", and refer as above to FAR 91.205 and FAA Order 
>> 8130.2F.
>>
>> Thanks to everyone for the help -- I'll let you know if I get any 
>> 'push back' from the FAA guy when I talk with him!
>>
>> Bob Jackson
>>
>> N2XF Velocity XL/RG
>>
>> Lost alternator issue
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:*reflector-bounces at tvbf.org <mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org> 
>> [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] *On Behalf Of *Reiff Lorenz
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 14, 2013 5:22 PM
>> *To:* Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: Velocity MEL (Minimum Equipment List)
>>
>> The attached document is what the EAA says about the equipment that 
>> is required to be installed on powered E-AB aircraft. Basically, for 
>> Day VFR flights that are not in the vicinity of an airport, you 
>> _only_ need an ELT. No compass, no transponder, no lights, no seat 
>> belts, no fuel guage, no altimeter . . . nothin' but the ELT! (Stay 
>> within 50 miles of takeoff and you don't even need the ELT.)
>>
>> If you don't have a Minimum Equipment List (MEL) established for your 
>> aircraft, it seems your only flight requirement is the ELT. (And 
>> there's even a provision that if the ELT is inop, you can fly to have 
>> it repaired.)
>>
>> Want to fly at night? You'll need an altimeter, airspeed indicator, 
>> compass, engine instruments, fuel gauge, seat belts with shoulder 
>> harnesses, spare fuses, _approved_ position lights _and_ 
>> anti-collision lights. An  "adequate source of power" is required but 
>> an alternator is optional.
>>
>> Of course, IFR flight requires adding gyroscopic pitch, bank, and 
>> rate of turn, clock, alternator, and a bunch of navigation equipment.
>>
>> The original document can be found here: 
>> http://www.eaa.org/sportaviationmag/2011/1103_ABEA_Requirements.pdf
>>
>> This doesn't directly answer the question "Can I fly with a broken 
>> X?" But it's part of the answer since the regs state that an aircraft 
>> _can_ fly with inoperative equipment if the equipment is not required 
>> for the aircraft for type of flight being conducted. With nothing but 
>> an ELT required for day-VFR flight, it leaves a lot of latitude to 
>> the pilot to decide if the flight is safe without the equipment. 
>> (Just don't forget to document and placard it to stay legal!)
>>
>> I learned something today.
>>
>> *Reiff Lorenz, Dayton, OH*
>>
>> Velocity XL-RG, 40% complete
>>
>> Currently working on: Deciding between VP-X and VP-400. Any thoughts?
>>
>> *The Velocity Builders' Virtual Hangar 
>> <https://liveconferencepro.com/guest/loginguest.php?id=d3a73e710c719626dd353d3b101be90f>. 
>> Available 24/7 for builders and owners:*
>>
>> https://liveconferencepro.com/guest/loginguest.php?id=86a48563bb517ade0abf1a7ee1f38e65
>>
>> <EAA minimum equipment requirements for EAB aircraft.pdf>
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