REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 95, Issue 43
Scott Derrick
scott at tnstaafl.net
Sat Feb 23 20:16:34 CST 2013
check your main bearing tightness. If you jack up the plane can you
wigggle the wheel on th bearings at all? If so they are too loose. This
can allow the brakes to bind somewhat.
Scott
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 95, Issue 43
From: David Ullman <ullman at robustdecisions.com>
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Date: 02/23/2013 05:51 PM
> Thanks for all the words. Rather than BonAmi, other locals suggested Mouse
> Milk which is a penetrating oil, much like WD-40 as best I can tell. ( I
> don't think it has any grit in it, just a lot of solvents. I need to do
> more checking.. Not thrilled with putting a grit in the system as there are
> many other places I don't want it (e.g. oil pumps, lifters and cam).
>
> My oil temps are fine, my compression is OK. One other piece of evidence
> that the rings are not well seated is that if I put 60psi into a cylinder at
> the plug, I can feel a breeze at the breather tube. Also, the breather does
> wet the bottom of the plane. I have tried different configurations for the
> breather and have a simple separator in it. I am, on one hand, encouraged
> to hear that others have a similar problem with the C1C. On the other I
> don't like spraying oil over the country side. At least it isn't very
> expensive.
>
> As for the pull to the left, I will double check the tire air pressure, but
> I think it OK. I believe I fly at a slight crab and need to double check
> this. If I do, and it is in the same sense as the pull on take-off, then I
> clearly need to shim the engine.
>
> Thanks again for the words.
>
> David Ullman
> N444DX
> President EAA 292
> 541-754-3609
> david at davidullman.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of reflector-request at tvbf.org
> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:58 PM
> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 95, Issue 43
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Oil, P-factor and othe things (Tom Cacek)
> 2. Re: Oil, P-factor and other things (Laurence Coen)
> 3. Re: Oil, P-factor and othe things (Andrew Judge)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 14:42:09 -0500 (EST)
> From: Tom Cacek <hytec45 at aol.com>
> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Oil, P-factor and othe things
> Message-ID: <8CFE015004AF028-1590-64A76 at webmail-m092.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I have over 800 hrs on my IO360C1C and have been fighting the same oil
> consumption issue since new. 2hrs per quart. I re-honed the cylinders
> (twice) new pistons and rings with no difference. After about 500 hrs.
> (With nothing else to spend money on) I went so far as to install new
> cylinders, nitrited w/chrome rings (best low oil consumption
> combination),followed break-in to the "T",with the same results, 2hrs per
> quart. Tried all different oil levels, oil separators. My engine has the
> oil nozzles in the main bearing bolsters that point into the cylinders to
> spray oil on the piston base. I think that these nozzles flood the cylinder
> wall, and the oil ring doesn't get it all. I have never had any signs of
> any oil on prop, or leakage, and my exhaust has always been a light ash
> color. I have been told I can remove the nozzles, but since my cylinder and
> oil temps are great, I decided not to.
>
> I will be interested to see what this thread can provide.
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
>
>
> -----Original Message-----From: David Ullman <ullman at robustdecisions.com>To:
> reflector <reflector at tvbf.org>Sent: Sat, Feb 23, 2013 04:45 AMSubject:
> REFLECTOR: Oil, P-factor and othe thingsI now have 80+ hours on my SEFG.
> Still have a 50' paint job and theinterior isn't finished. When we first
> started flying we had handlingproblems and so the IO-360 C1C never got
> broken in correctly as we couldn'tdo full power at first. Thus, the rings
> are not seated so I use oil, a lotof oil - a quart a tank (maybe I have a
> 2-cycle engine). I am thinking ofpulling the cylinders, honing and
> reringing. Any thoughts?On take off my plane pulls to the left enough that
> I have to tap the rightbrake. It is not very much so on taxi. I don't seem
> to have brake drag andI have tinkered with the toe in. I though Canards did
> not have a P-factorand if so should be to the right. IS this really a
> toe-in issue? If so,which wheel is off. I have tried 13 different ways of
> measuring toe in andthought !
> I was about right. But??I just found that I broke an exhaust pipe. The
> factory supplied system hadone piece for each cylinder, with the two pieces
> on each side slip fittogether and projecting forward. In order to get the
> 1-3 cylinder assemblyto fit in the cowl, I cut a Vee in them near the
> cylinder flange and hadthem rewelded. I thought we normalized them, but
> this where the #3 pipecracked. My cowl does hit this pipe a little. So I
> need to replace thepipe near the flange and fix the cowl clearance issue.
> Anybody know whatstainless steel this is and a source for it. I will call
> the factory onMonday and see if they can aim me at the original vendor.In
> spite of the oil problem I did a lap around Mt. St Helens last week(found
> the broken exhaust on return). See attached photos. First one islooking
> west with the Olympics in the background and the second south withthe dark,
> still warm part of the mountain in the lower part of the of theimage. I am
> at 9500 in these photo!
> s.David UllmanN444DXPresident EAA
> 292541-754-3609david at davidullman.com________________________________________
> _______To change your email address, visit
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 15:31:05 -0600
> From: "Laurence Coen" <lwcoen at hotmail.com>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Oil, P-factor and other things
> Message-ID: <BLU171-DS1DAEE1B0817BFEE9478A3D3F10 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> David,
>
> Bon Ami is a very fine polishing power that has been used to seat piston
> rings since almost as long as the internal combustion engine has existed. I
>
> think the secret is that the particle size is less than 10 microns and won't
>
> hurt bearings. Comet contains chlorine bleach. That being said, one quart
> in 4 hours for a Lycoming 360 is normal. That's what my experience with a
> Cherokee 180 would indicate and it went well over TBO.
>
> If it pulls to the left on take off but not on taxi an offset thrust could
> be the culprit. This is easy to fix with shims between the engine mount and
>
> the firewall. Miss alignment of the main gear doesn't usually cause
> tracking problems but shows up as excess or uneven tire ware.
>
> Larry Coen
> N136LC
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "David Ullman" <ullman at robustdecisions.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 8:40 AM
> To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: REFLECTOR: Oil, P-factor and othe things
>
>> I now have 80+ hours on my SEFG. Still have a 50' paint job and the
>> interior isn't finished. When we first started flying we had handling
>> problems and so the IO-360 C1C never got broken in correctly as we
>> couldn't
>> do full power at first. Thus, the rings are not seated so I use oil, a
>> lot
>> of oil - a quart a tank (maybe I have a 2-cycle engine). I am thinking of
>> pulling the cylinders, honing and reringing. Any thoughts?
>>
>> On take off my plane pulls to the left enough that I have to tap the right
>> brake. It is not very much so on taxi. I don't seem to have brake drag
>> and
>> I have tinkered with the toe in. I though Canards did not have a P-factor
>> and if so should be to the right. IS this really a toe-in issue? If so,
>> which wheel is off. I have tried 13 different ways of measuring toe in
>> and
>> thought I was about right. But??
>>
>> I just found that I broke an exhaust pipe. The factory supplied system
>> had
>> one piece for each cylinder, with the two pieces on each side slip fit
>> together and projecting forward. In order to get the 1-3 cylinder
>> assembly
>> to fit in the cowl, I cut a Vee in them near the cylinder flange and had
>> them rewelded. I thought we normalized them, but this where the #3 pipe
>> cracked. My cowl does hit this pipe a little. So I need to replace the
>> pipe near the flange and fix the cowl clearance issue. Anybody know what
>> stainless steel this is and a source for it. I will call the factory on
>> Monday and see if they can aim me at the original vendor.
>>
>> In spite of the oil problem I did a lap around Mt. St Helens last week
>> (found the broken exhaust on return). See attached photos. First one is
>> looking west with the Olympics in the background and the second south with
>> the dark, still warm part of the mountain in the lower part of the of the
>> image. I am at 9500 in these photos.
>>
>> David Ullman
>> N444DX
>> President EAA 292
>> 541-754-3609
>> david at davidullman.com
>>
>
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>
>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 22:53:52 +0000
> From: Andrew Judge <ajudge at grovenetworks.com>
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Cc: "reflector at tvbf.org" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Oil, P-factor and othe things
> Message-ID: <9AE0DF01-96DB-4256-9743-C3A12289D5FF at grovenetworks.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Same on my c1c. 600 hours and peels through oil. My compression is always
> 78/80 or 79/80.
>
> Temps are 185 on oil and 360-380 on cht
>
> On Feb 23, 2013, at 2:45 PM, "Tom Cacek"
> <hytec45 at aol.com<mailto:hytec45 at aol.com>> wrote:
>
> I have over 800 hrs on my IO360C1C and have been fighting the same oil
> consumption issue since new. 2hrs per quart. I re-honed the cylinders
> (twice) new pistons and rings with no difference. After about 500 hrs. (With
> nothing else to spend money on) I went so far as to install new cylinders,
> nitrited w/chrome rings (best low oil consumption combination),followed
> break-in to the "T",with the same results, 2hrs per quart. Tried all
> different oil levels, oil separators. My engine has the oil nozzles in the
> main bearing bolsters that point into the cylinders to spray oil on the
> piston base. I think that these nozzles flood the cylinder wall, and the oil
> ring doesn't get it all. I have never had any signs of any oil on prop, or
> leakage, and my exhaust has always been a light ash color. I have been told
> I can remove the nozzles, but since my cylinder and oil temps are great, I
> decided not to.
>
> I will be interested to see what this thread can provide.
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Andrew Judge
>
> President
>
> Grove Networks Inc.
>
>
> [cid:image63d61f.PNG at b2244c21.4187ccb5]
>
>
> www.grovenetworks.com<http://www.grovenetworks.com> -Check out our new
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>
> Please email any requests for support to support at grovenetworks.com or call
> us at 305-448 6126 for immediate assistance
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Ullman
> <ullman at robustdecisions.com<mailto:ullman at robustdecisions.com>>
> To: reflector <reflector at tvbf.org<mailto:reflector at tvbf.org>>
> Sent: Sat, Feb 23, 2013 04:45 AM
> Subject: REFLECTOR: Oil, P-factor and othe things
>
>
> I now have 80+ hours on my SEFG. Still have a 50' paint job and the
> interior isn't finished. When we first started flying we had handling
> problems and so the IO-360 C1C never got broken in correctly as we couldn't
> do full power at first. Thus, the rings are not seated so I use oil, a lot
> of oil - a quart a tank (maybe I have a 2-cycle engine). I am thinking of
> pulling the cylinders, honing and reringing. Any thoughts?
>
> On take off my plane pulls to the left enough that I have to tap the right
> brake. It is not very much so on taxi. I don't seem to have brake drag and
> I have tinkered with the toe in. I though Canards did not have a P-factor
> and if so should be to the right. IS this really a toe-in issue? If so,
> which wheel is off. I have tried 13 different ways of measuring toe in and
> thought I was about right. But??
>
> I just found that I broke an exhaust pipe. The factory supplied system had
> one piece for each cylinder, with the two pieces on each side slip fit
> together and projecting forward. In order to get the 1-3 cylinder assembly
> to fit in the cowl, I cut a Vee in them near the cylinder flange and had
> them rewelded. I thought we normalized them, but this where the #3 pipe
> cracked. My cowl does hit this pipe a little. So I need to replace the
> pipe near the flange and fix the cowl clearance issue. Anybody know what
> stainless steel this is and a source for it. I will call the factory on
> Monday and see if they can aim me at the original vendor.
>
> In spite of the oil problem I did a lap around Mt. St Helens last week
> (found the broken exhaust on return). See attached photos. First one is
> looking west with the Olympics in the background and the second south with
> the dark, still warm part of the mountain in the lower part of the of the
> image. I am at 9500 in these photos.
>
> David Ullman
> N444DX
> President EAA 292
> 541-754-3609
> david at davidullman.com<mailto:david at davidullman.com>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery<http://www.tvbf.org/gallery>
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail<http://www.tvbf.org/pipermail>
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery<http://www.tvbf.org/gallery>
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail<http://www.tvbf.org/pipermail>
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> End of Reflector Digest, Vol 95, Issue 43
> *****************************************
>
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--
When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so
long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened
for us.
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