REFLECTOR: Nose Gear Doors

Fri Aug 23 00:54:26 CDT 2013

Clay,

yes, effectively option 3 of your picture.  I will put fine bid on the
outside but not try to wrap it around - it would be too tight a radius, and
I don't think it would be needed anyway, particularly with 3 x bid flange
on the inside.  The bid strip will only be something like 1" max, it
doesn't need to be any more according to AC43-13-1b.  I'll be getting into
this early next week.

Paul

On 23 August 2013 10:35, Clayton Chase <chasec at gmail.com> wrote:

> Paul:
> So are you going to do what amounts to the third section of the picture
> that I sent, only use milled fiber rather than pure epoxy/cab-o-sill ?
>
> How far back on the outside of the fuselage are you planning on bringing
> the bid and how are you going to make it square up where it reaches the
> door cut-out?   I don't think there is any reasonable way to make those
> edges square with fiberglass; there will be some rounding that has to be
> filled with something that can make right angles.
>
> I'm thinking that the milled fiber is a good call but I'm not going to try
> to do bid on the outside since it's got the support of multiple layers on
> the inside; the bid would be wrapped around an edge less than 1/16" thick
> and I don't think I can make it do that turn effectively.  I will do 3 or
> maybe 4 layers of bid on the inside to help provide strength though.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Paul Folkes <ausvelocity at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the input,everyone.  My only reason for thinking to use just
>> Cabosil is that my old manual says it is great for filling nicks, chips and
>> small gaps.  However, I think that you are all right, and that 'belts and
>> braces' is better in that area, and so I am going to use milled fibre and
>> cabo mix to infill and cover with fine bid.  That should do it!
>>
>> Thanks again everyone.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Paul Folkes
>> XLRG
>> VH-VVX
>> *building but a looooong way to go.*
>> *
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23 August 2013 08:07, Matt Bucko <mbuc310 at cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>  Andy, you are correct.
>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/22/2013 12:53 PM, Andrew Ellzey wrote:
>>>
>>> Somebody can correct me, if I am wrong, but cab o sil is only susposed
>>> to be used as a thinking agent, why don't you use milled glass fibers and
>>> structural epoxy. This mixture is then structural. Not just a non
>>> structural filler, unless that is what you are looking for, then you should
>>> again use structural or non structural epoxy, and mill glass beads, and
>>> then thicken it with cab o sil.
>>>
>>>  Andy Ellzey
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Aug 22, 2013, at 5:07 PM, Clayton Chase <chasec at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>    I'm having the same problem Paul is only in my case it's because I
>>> can't cut straight, not that the factory made the hole wrong.  I've made a
>>> picture that shows the situation perhaps a little more clearly.
>>>
>>>  I was thinking that since the cab-o-sil is not very thick and is
>>> already backed by the flange fiberglass it would be strong enough on its
>>> own.    Does anyone have any opinions on this?
>>>
>>> <Nose Gear Door Gap Issue And Solutions.png>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:28 PM, Paul Folkes <ausvelocity at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>
>>>>  thanks.  I did something similar to get the bend in the doors to
>>>> match the contour of the fuselage, which is now good.  My problem is uneven
>>>> gaps between the door edges and the edges of the hole, because the hole is
>>>> not square.
>>>>
>>>>  Paul Folkes
>>>> XLRG
>>>> VH-VVX
>>>> *building but a looooong way to go.*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  On 22 August 2013 12:04, Bob Jackson (Jax Tech) <bobj at jaxtechllc.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>   Paul,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> An alternative to filling the gaps is to bend the doors to fit the
>>>>> fuselage opening.  When we first fit our gull wing doors to the fuselage,
>>>>> the doors on both sides did not follow the exact contour of the fuselage,
>>>>> and the bottom corners of the door stuck out and in ~1/2" from the fuselage
>>>>> surface.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We had great success in building a 'jig' involving 3/8" threaded rods,
>>>>> threaded through temporary holes cut into the door beams, and through 2x4's
>>>>> temporarily fixed to the insides and outsides of the fuselage for
>>>>> leverage.  By turning nuts on the threaded rod we could 'spring' the doors
>>>>> into proper alignment.  The next step then was to heat the door (multiple
>>>>> hot air guns and heat lamps until the door fiberglass was almost too hot to
>>>>> touch) so that the epoxy would 'flow' slightly and the door would bend
>>>>> slightly and assume the new desired shape that was flush with the fuselage
>>>>> skin.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you only can do this 'trick' a few times before the epoxy
>>>>> begins to 'work harden' and will no longer re-flow and bend.  We learned
>>>>> trial-and-error that we needed to 'over-spring' the bending corrections
>>>>> (e.g., if we needed to move the door in 1/2", then using the nuts on the
>>>>> threaded rod actually bend it in 1" while heating it up).  Once we heated
>>>>> it up with something like twice the correction needed, once it cooled down
>>>>> after a few hours and we removed the rig, the door would loose about half
>>>>> of the correction and spring back to 'about right'.  One or two cycles of
>>>>> this and our doors now fit perfectly!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This doesn't seem to be a technique that too many people know about,
>>>>> but it worked great for us and I think it should also work on you nose gear
>>>>> doors.
>>>>>
>>>>> Good luck!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob Jackson
>>>>>
>>>>> Turbo-Cross Country Velocity XL-RG
>>>>>
>>>>> N2XF
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]
>>>>> *On Behalf Of *Paul Folkes
>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 21, 2013 8:36 PM
>>>>> *To:* Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>>>>> *Subject:* REFLECTOR: Nose Gear Doors
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm looking for some advice from the collective wisdom.  I am working
>>>>> on the nose gear doors.  I have an older, fast-build kit and have to make
>>>>> my own flange (no problem there). My problem is the hole cut out by the
>>>>> factory is not square and there are a few dings and chips from moves from
>>>>> garage to garage to hangar by the previous owner. This all means that there
>>>>> are some uneven and quite large (up to 1/4 inch) gaps around the
>>>>> pre-moulded doors that I need to fill and reshape to get the hole square
>>>>> with nice straight edges.  What is the best process and material for this?
>>>>>  I am thinking to cover the door piece in duct tape or saran wrap and hot
>>>>> glue or bondo it into place, wipe cabosil into the gaps around the door,
>>>>> and then sand square when cured.  Any comments, please?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul Folkes
>>>>>
>>>>> XLRG
>>>>>
>>>>> VH-VVX
>>>>>
>>>>> *building but a looooong way to go.*
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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