REFLECTOR: Flying Magazine - 2009 Velocity accident (Mark Magee)
Douglas Holub
douglas.holub at gmail.com
Wed Oct 10 18:16:49 CDT 2012
I also have the short chord wings and my second hand kit came with the leading edge cuffs but they weren't installed yet. Duane Swing's opinion was: 1. There never was a need to add the cuffs, and 2. Even if there was a need, vortex generators do more for lift than the cuffs do. So I didn't install them.
Doug Holub
Standard FG w/ electric nose lift, 130 hours
Coming out of the upholstery shop on Saturday
----- Original Message -----
From: none
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Flying Magazine - 2009 Velocity accident (Mark Magee)
I have an old standard FG project that I purchased with the airframe completed. The original builder placed a leading edge cuff on the wings to help eliminate the deep stall. I've read good and bad concerning this modification. I would like comments on this modification. Good, bad, should it be removed, should I keep it. Let me know.
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 10, 2012, at 11:22 AM, "Laurence Coen" <lwcoen at hotmail.com> wrote:
Dave,
It wasn't a thunderstorm, it was wake turbulence and he came down inverted which is likely why it was fatal. All else is accurate.
Larry Coen
N136LC
From: Dave T Nelson
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 6:42 AM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Flying Magazine - 2009 Velocity accident (Mark Magee)
The author got other basic facts wrong. It wasn't Rutan that mounted an EZ on the back of a truck to investigate deep stall... it was Danny Maier, and it was a Velocity. Also, the one other fatal deep stall mentioned in the article was a Velocity where the builder had modified the fuel tanks by removing the rear wall of the tank and allowing the fuel to go all the way back to the spar to gain more fuel capacity. That, and the fact that he flew into a thunderstorm, caused the accident.
Geez....
Dave
Dave T. Nelson
T/L 553-4327, Voice 507-253-4327, Fax 507-253-3648
Program Director, ISC ECAT NPI & Test Engineering
----- Forwarded by Dave T Nelson/Rochester/IBM on 10/10/2012 06:39 AM -----
On Oct 9, 2012, at 8:59 PM, Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net> wrote:
There are mistruths, he states 3 prior accidents, two landing in the ocean. He fails to mention one of those was intentional by the factory, the test pilot elected to stay in the airplane, he had a parachute, and soft landed in the ocean. That plane was flying the next day. He states that any canard airplane can be deep stalled at 128K by either aft cg or abrupt pullup! First half truth/Lie is that it takes a way aft CG, since the redesign you need to be 2-3+ inches or more aft of aft CG limit and get the airplane in a very odd attitude, which at 128 knots I think thats probably not doable. That you can deep stall a V by doing abrupt maneuvers is blatant speculation and I've never heard of anybody doing it. I've made some pretty aggressive maneuvers and been in some wild thunderstorm generated turbulence, by myself(aft CG) and never felt any indication at all of a deep stall. And the accident plane hit really hard! All three known deep stall accidents, one intentional, all hit very softly, and hit flat. This accident turned over, that would not be characteristic of a deep stall.
He took a few facts, dressed up a few assumptions, sugar coated a few lies and just made shit up! I think he has a thing against canards and is playing fast and loose with the facts to paint the V as inherently dangerous.
Scott
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Flying Magazine - 2009 Velocity accident
From: Mark Magee <edjonesbrady at gmail.com>
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Date: 10/09/2012 04:47 PM
Hi Scott,
Elaborate?
Mark B. Magee
M34XL
Sent from IPhone 4S
On Oct 9, 2012, at 5:32 PM, Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net> wrote:
You know I've always liked reading Garrison's articles. I now wonder if most of them are as full of bullshit as this one? Probably so...
Scott
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: REFLECTOR: Flying Magazine - 2009 Velocity accident
From: Reiff Lorenz <Reiff at Lorenz.com>
To: reflector at tvbf.org <reflector at tvbf.org>
Date: 10/09/2012 03:42 PM
This month's Flying magazine has an article (copy attached) about a Velocity accident in 2009. The plane lost a prop blade and this author believes the pilot mistook the violent shaking to be flutter, pulled abruptly on the stick, put the plane into a deep stall, and had no way to use engine power to break the stall.
I wasn't a Reflector member in 2009 so don't know any more than what is in the article. Is there anything to learn from this apart from the obvious? (Make sure your prop blades stay attached, but recognize the symptoms if they don't, and fly the airplane.)
Reiff Lorenz, Dayton, OH
Velocity XL-RG, 37% complete
Currently working on: Sanding stuff smooth.
The Velocity Builders' Virtual Hangar. Available 24/7 for builders and owners:
https://liveconferencepro.com/guest/loginguest.php?id=86a48563bb517ade0abf1a7ee1f38e65
PS I'll be in the hangar from 7 – 9pm EDT tonight (Tuesday is building night!)
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