REFLECTOR: Epoxy question

Tue Oct 9 10:07:59 CDT 2012

In the post with the pictures he says one is 90, the other 45 (emphasis added by me) .  In the earlier post below he says he uses the 90 only for cosmetic items, and that it is not as strong.

From: Lawrence Epstein 
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 5:02 AM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list 
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Epoxy question

The heavier tape looks like a 45 degree bias. Is the lighter one on a 45 deg bias? 
If not, I wouldn't think it would perform the same function (structurally).

Larry

On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Reiff Lorenz <Reiff at lorenz.com> wrote:

  Here's a photo of the thin 90-degree bid from Aircraft Spruce and the thick 45-degree BID from West Marine.

  From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Reiff Lorenz
  Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 10:08 AM
  To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
  Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Epoxy question

  Do you have any pictures of the bid tape?

  Ron,

  It is: West Marine #727 (Episize Biaxial Tape, 4" x 20 yard roll.)  Here is the link to the part on West Marine's site.

  http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=14880&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=50218&subdeptNum=50219&classNum=50226

  (If the above link is broken, try:    http://goo.gl/iHedd   )

  It is 50% heavier than the stock Velocity BID, so where the plans call for 5 layers of (woven 8.9oz) BID, I've been using 3 (straight 15oz) plies of this. It doesn't stretch or contort as much as standard BID (due to the non-structural, in-line stitching that holds it together), which is great when trying to place a long strip in position, but be aware that it won't conform to tight corners very well.

  West has free shipping on orders of $99 or more.

  For cosmetic applications, I've been using the Aircraft Spruce fiberglass tape. It's lighter that Velocity BID and it's laid out at 90-degrees, so it's not as strong. Good for keeping seams from cracking or as a smooth layer of glass on top of a structural layup.

  http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/etapes.php

  While you're there, get some peel-ply tape, too. So much easier than trying to cut 4-inch strips from a long roll. I got this from another builder and have used it almost exclusively.

  http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/peelply.php

  DISCLAIMER: I'm not a fiberglass expert. Most of my fiberglass work at this stage consists of fairings and flanges. I have no qualms about using the West fiberglass for things like holding on canard tips or making cowl flanges. I'd check with Velocity HQ or an engineer, though, before I used it in load-supporting applications like bulkhead reinforcements.

  Hope this helps!

  Reiff Lorenz, Dayton, OH

  Velocity XL-RG, 37% complete

  Currently working on: Creating a large-radius wing root fairing on the engine cowl.

  The Velocity Builders' Virtual Hangar is available 24/7 at:

  https://liveconferencepro.com/guest/loginguest.php?id=86a48563bb517ade0abf1a7ee1f38e65

  From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Ron N VelocityXLFG
  Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 12:23 PM
  To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
  Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Epoxy question

  Do you have any pictures of the bid tape. And a part number . Sorry I can not picture what you are using.
  I would love to not have to cut bid tapes

  Ron

  On 10/3/2012 9:54 PM, Reiff Lorenz wrote:

    I'm now using West exclusively. I use the fast hardener and mix it in small batches. Layups gel within an hour. If I hit it with a heat gun after it has gelled (and the exotherm danger has passed) it is fully set and sandable within a few hours. It keeps me building instead of waiting. I switch to the slow hardener for larger batches or projects that I don't expect to work on again in the next for 24 hours.

    While we're talking about West products, their 4-inch 45-degree BID tape saves a ton of time cutting tape strips! It's 50% heavier than the 8.9 ounce BID that the kit calls for and its fibers are not woven ( they're held in place with a non-structural thread, like triax), so they are supposedly even stronger than woven BID. Anyone else using this?

    Reiff Lorenz, Dayton, OH

    Velocity XL-RG, 37% complete

    Currently working on: Fitting cowl to wings.

    The Velocity Builders' Virtual Hangar is available 24/7 at:

    https://liveconferencepro.com/guest/loginguest.php?id=86a48563bb517ade0abf1a7ee1f38e65

    From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Lou Stedman
    Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 6:04 PM
    To: Canard Aviators; Velocity Reflector
    Subject: REFLECTOR: Epoxy question

    I got a lot of different answers to my question about epoxy from everyone. They were much appreciated. Today I called Velocity and asked them. They told me that I used the wrong hardener, which you all told me. They said that I could use the West as long as I used the slower hardener. In my case it is the 206. He did say that the 209 would be better but if I mixed more micros, they would take away some of the heat. He also suggested that instead of trying to fill the entire void which was created, that I epoxy in close cell foam to fill the original area. He told me to let it dry using the 206 and the next day I can cut a slot just a bit larger the the horn and epoxy it into place. The last thing he suggested was to put one layer of bid over the repaired area, sand , and paint. 

    So today I followed his instructions and had no problem. Tomorrow I will cut my slot and epoxy in the control horn. So not others know the “right” way to do this repair. Thanks again for all of your comments. It helped a lot.

    Lou Stedman
    Velocity SEFG
    N7044Q
    Olean, NY

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