REFLECTOR: Epoxy question

Mon Oct 8 16:19:49 CDT 2012

I wish I knew about the West stuff. 

I have used the 90 from ASS, but only for small flanges and stuff that are not really structural. I found it best to cut off the selvage edge because it is thicker than the rest. More than one layer and it really became obvious. 

Will store this info away for future use. Thanks'

Kurt 

-----Original Message-----
From: Reiff Lorenz <Reiff at lorenz.com>
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Mon, Oct 8, 2012 2:23 pm
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Epoxy question

Here's a photo of the thin 90-degree bid from Aircraft Spruce and the thick 45-degree BID from West Marine.

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Reiff Lorenz
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 10:08 AM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Epoxy question

Do you have any pictures of the bid tape?

Ron,

It is: West Marine #727 (Episize Biaxial Tape, 4" x 20 yard roll.)  Here is the link to the part on West Marine's site.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=14880&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=50218&subdeptNum=50219&classNum=50226

(If the above link is broken, try:    http://goo.gl/iHedd   )

It is 50% heavier than the stock Velocity BID, so where the plans call for 5 layers of (woven 8.9oz) BID, I've been using 3 (straight 15oz) plies of this. It doesn't stretch or contort as much as standard BID (due to the non-structural, in-line stitching that holds it together), which is great when trying to place a long strip in position, but be aware that it won't conform to tight corners very well.

West has free shipping on orders of $99 or more.

For cosmetic applications, I've been using the Aircraft Spruce fiberglass tape. It's lighter that Velocity BID and it's laid out at 90-degrees, so it's not as strong. Good for keeping seams from cracking or as a smooth layer of glass on top of a structural layup.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/etapes.php

While you're there, get some peel-ply tape, too. So much easier than trying to cut 4-inch strips from a long roll. I got this from another builder and have used it almost exclusively.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/peelply.php

DISCLAIMER: I'm not a fiberglass expert. Most of my fiberglass work at this stage consists of fairings and flanges. I have no qualms about using the West fiberglass for things like holding on canard tips or making cowl flanges. I'd check with Velocity HQ or an engineer, though, before I used it in load-supporting applications like bulkhead reinforcements.

Hope this helps!

Reiff Lorenz, Dayton, OH
Velocity XL-RG, 37% complete
Currently working on: Creating a large-radius wing root fairing on the engine cowl.

The Velocity Builders' Virtual Hangar is available 24/7 at:
https://liveconferencepro.com/guest/loginguest.php?id=86a48563bb517ade0abf1a7ee1f38e65

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Ron N VelocityXLFG
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 12:23 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Epoxy question

Do you have any pictures of the bid tape. And a part number . Sorry I can not picture what you are using.
I would love to not have to cut bid tapes

Ron

On 10/3/2012 9:54 PM, Reiff Lorenz wrote:

I'm now using West exclusively. I use the fast hardener and mix it in small batches. Layups gel within an hour. If I hit it with a heat gun after it has gelled (and the exotherm danger has passed) it is fully set and sandable within a few hours. It keeps me building instead of waiting. I switch to the slow hardener for larger batches or projects that I don't expect to work on again in the next for 24 hours.

While we're talking about West products, their 4-inch 45-degree BID tape saves a ton of time cutting tape strips! It's 50% heavier than the 8.9 ounce BID that the kit calls for and its fibers are not woven ( they're held in place with a non-structural thread, like triax), so they are supposedly even stronger than woven BID. Anyone else using this?

Reiff Lorenz, Dayton, OH
Velocity XL-RG, 37% complete
Currently working on: Fitting cowl to wings.

The Velocity Builders' Virtual Hangar is available 24/7 at:
https://liveconferencepro.com/guest/loginguest.php?id=86a48563bb517ade0abf1a7ee1f38e65

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Lou Stedman
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 6:04 PM
To: Canard Aviators; Velocity Reflector
Subject: REFLECTOR: Epoxy question

I got a lot of different answers to my question about epoxy from everyone. They were much appreciated. Today I called Velocity and asked them. They told me that I used the wrong hardener, which you all told me. They said that I could use the West as long as I used the slower hardener. In my case it is the 206. He did say that the 209 would be better but if I mixed more micros, they would take away some of the heat. He also suggested that instead of trying to fill the entire void which was created, that I epoxy in close cell foam to fill the original area. He told me to let it dry using the 206 and the next day I can cut a slot just a bit larger the the horn and epoxy it into place. The last thing he suggested was to put one layer of bid over the repaired area, sand , and paint. 

So today I followed his instructions and had no problem. Tomorrow I will cut my slot and epoxy in the control horn. So not others know the “right” way to do this repair. Thanks again for all of your comments. It helped a lot.

Lou Stedman
Velocity SEFG
N7044Q
Olean, NY

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