REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 92, Issue 46

none markinchampions at gmail.com
Tue Nov 20 13:10:08 CST 2012


I have an OLD SCHOOL Std FG that was setup for a water cooled engine with the NACA scoops on the bottom. I am changing to a Lyc. 4 cyl. with possible updraft cooling. However, I may install NACA scoops on the top of the airframe as well and use the bottom scoops for ram air to the carb. Any thoughts from the group?


On Nov 20, 2012, at 12:52 PM, Willem Huisman wrote:

> Larry,
> 
> Armpitscoops with plenum and Franklin is what I have, and very,very
> low CHT as well.
> My previous Velocity had armpits with Lycoming and baffles, always had
> to battle high CHT.
> 
> In both cases however CHT temp probes are on same side where cool air
> is. You need to add around 50 degrees thet claim to derive to real
> CHT.
> 
> Still however, Armpit with plenum seems the best way keeping CHT low.
> I  planned top Naca , but Scott Baker convinced me to keep as is, and
> he was correct.
> 
> Wim Huisman
> N59WH
> 
> Sent from my mobile device
> 
> 
> Op 20 nov. 2012 om 19:45 heeft "reflector-request at tvbf.org"
> <reflector-request at tvbf.org> het volgende geschreven:
> 
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>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>  1. Re:  Early model Velocity RG Engine Cooling (Laurence Coen)
>>  2. Re:  Need some advice/measurements (Scott Baker)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 12:12:40 -0600
>> From: "Laurence Coen" <lwcoen at hotmail.com>
>> To: "David Smith" <dwsmithaircraft at yahoo.com>, "Velocity Aircraft
>>   Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Early model Velocity RG Engine Cooling
>> Message-ID: <SNT117-DS853B8BAC61073A417C89AD3550 at phx.gbl>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> 
>> David,
>> 
>> I have the armpit scoops and they work very well.  I have a Franklin engine with a downdraft plenum that is connected to the air inlets with 4" scat tubing.  This time of year I have trouble keeping my CHT above 200 F.  I made a modification to the scoops by adding an internal venturi to the scoops to enhance pressure recovery.  I think it worked pretty well since I blew a scat tube off one side of the plenum during 200 Knt flutter testing.  I make sure I get the clamps real tight now.  To get top NACA scoops to work, most find that they have to put vortex generators ahead of them.  IMHO the only reason for going with NACA's is they look cool period.
>> 
>> Larry Coen
>> N136LC
>> 
>> P.S.:  As a way to solve all your problems, you could buy my plane and go flying right away. :>)
>> 
>> 
>> From: David Smith
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 8:15 AM
>> To: reflector at tvbf.org
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Early model Velocity RG Engine Cooling
>> 
>> 
>> I have bought and am rebuilding a damaged Standard Velocity RG. It appears it has gone through a couple of air inlet mods with the latest being under strakes at wing to fuselage corners. I am at the stage where I would like to incorporate the best cooling to drag design before paint. The baffling that came with the aircraft is all wrong for the flow in the cowl. I have looked and thought about differences between up-flow and down-flow cooling with down-flow being simplest with baffling, but with low air inlets being simplest at modification. Any suggestion or a point in where to go for info will be appreciated.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> 
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>> ------------------------------
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>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:43:01 -0500
>> From: Scott Baker <scottb33333 at gmail.com>
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Need some advice/measurements
>> Message-ID: <4F8ADC88-D239-441A-8CD0-D3B1083EC085 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Agree that an engine hoist is a good idea, however the center spar is not the center of mass - and lifting/controlling the nose section of the aircraft (while it is hoisted at the rear) will take some effort because of weight.  Remember the nose wheel will not be much help with the aircraft tilted.  Just thinking out loud.
>> 
>> Scott Baker
>> 
>> On Nov 20, 2012, at 8:14 AM, Craig Woolston <cdwoolston at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> If the engine is or even if it's not an engine host at the back end will push in any direction, with it's four catering wheels rather than using the mains.  This will let you basically twist and move the airplane sideways, if necessary.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> On Nov 20, 2012, at 4:19 AM, Scott Baker <scottb33333 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Please keep in mind that while it appears on paper that the aircraft can be tilted to fit through the opening, physically doing so might be challenging - especially if the engine is installed. Be thinking about what kind of hoist you will need to do the job of lifting, rotating, and transporting +1200 pounds of 'slippery shaped' airplane through the opening.
>>>> 
>>>> Best wishes to everyone for a warm and happy Thanksgiving!
>>>> 
>>>> Scott Baker
>>>> 
>>>> On Nov 19, 2012, at 9:49 PM, Clayton Chase <chasec at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Reiff:
>>>>> Thanks for the measurements.  I am now confident that I can fit this through the opening.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 5:20 AM, Reiff Lorenz <Reiff at lorenz.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Clayton,
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> It sounds like you're going to be able to clear your opening. Since you asked, I went and measured my XL-RG. I'll post the dimensions here for posterity.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From aft strake-tip to aft strake-tip it measured 141 3/4 inches. My strakes are 8  5/16" tall at that point. The plane will be a few inches wider toward the front of the strakes. The outboard edge of the strakes is 90 degrees to the main spar, but the spar is angled a few degrees aft on each side, so the strake tips angle out a few degrees. The outboard side of the strake is 18 ? inches long. My trig is rusty (and I don't know the spar angle) so I'm not sure how much the distance widens from the aft strake-tip to the forward strake-tip.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Reiff Lorenz, Dayton, OH
>>>>> 
>>>>> Velocity XL-RG, 38% complete
>>>>> 
>>>>> Currently working on: Gluing the cowls together and then cutting them apart.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Velocity Builders' Virtual Hangar. Available 24/7 for builders and owners:
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://liveconferencepro.com/guest/loginguest.php?id=86a48563bb517ade0abf1a7ee1f38e65
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Clayton Chase
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 7:16 PM
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>>>>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Need some advice/measurements
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'd like to mount the engine in the basement although I'm not so sure how much I want to run it in there even if I have a heat-capable exhaust pipe running outside.   The nearest hangar I can afford that I could do any work on the plane is about 50 minutes away, so I want to do everything I can at home before I move the project.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I called the factory and they say that it's exactly 12' wide and that the main spar height plus perhaps 1/4" will be the vertical dimension I need to worry about and it's less than 14", so with that and some minor trigonometry I determined that I will be just fine.   I'd be able to get it through my 7' high ceiling and 11' 1" width passage even if the spar was 12' 6" long.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> How complete are you going to go in the basement?  Are you going to mount the engine in the basement?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ask the factory if there is a layup plan that will allow you to glass in the spar after the firewall and fuselage has been built.  You'd be building strakes and baffles and spar after moving out of the basement.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 11/14/2012 12:33 PM, Clayton Chase wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi, all.   The plans for my basement modification took a sad turn today, the width of my opening to get the plane past one post has to be shrunk from 12' to 11' 1".   The height there is 7'.    Am I going to run into problems?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Can someone tell me to the nearest 1/2" how wide the fueselage and strakes are at the widest point?    How high are the ends of the strakes?   I'm assuming they are about 14" high but don't know exactly.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Using several estimated heights of the strakes:
>>>>> For 10" high I can handle a length of 12' 8.2"
>>>>> For 14" high, I can only get a length of 12' 6.2"
>>>>> For 18" high I can only a length of 12' 4.5" through
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is cutting it a LOT closer than I like.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>> End of Reflector Digest, Vol 92, Issue 46
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