REFLECTOR: Auto fuel

nmflyer1 at aol.com nmflyer1 at aol.com
Sun Mar 18 17:49:16 CDT 2012


Dennis, 

There are so many factors to take into consideration, it is hard to tell. 

Could the Gas I have been using be friendlier than others... possibly. 

It is also possible that there was a pinhole or two in other folks tank that allowed the gas to get underneath the Jeffco, and cause a problem from a different avenue. 

It could also be that filling of the tanks could have found a small spot that allowed the gas to get behind the Jeffco. Since I have not yet had more than 5 gallons in each tank, I may not have stumbled upon that kind of problem. 

Your proposal for X-country trips sounds reasonable, but is it safe enough?  I honestly don't know the answer. 

Here is some more mud for the water:  

I re-sealed the fiberglass tip tanks in the 235 several years ago. I had to repair some areas and went ahead and used Jeffco to seal them once I was done. Now, the Jeffco was over a year or so old at that point. 
The tip tanks in the 235 have a soft spot or 2 in them (in the top). I'm not sure why yet as I haven't had time to open them back up. 
The fuel I used in them is the same stuff that I put in the Velocity tanks. No soft spots there. 

When I need the tip tanks full, I do it right before I leave, and I burn them first. So far, the tanks have not gotten any worse. 

I will open them back up once the Velocity is flying and see if I can figure out what happened (and let you all know). It is a LOT easier than working on a Velocity tank!

Bottom line:  If we can not figure out the culprit as to what is causing the problem (specific chemical or procedure), then I don't think it is worth the risk to fill the Velocity tanks with MoGas. 
I would guess that if you blend your own fuel (50/50 Mogas to 100LL) that it would probably dilute the problem... but would it be enough? 

I know this doesn't help much.. but you did ask what I thought :) 

Kurt 



-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Martin <dennis.doc at gmail.com>
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Sat, Mar 17, 2012 10:46 pm
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Auto fuel


Kurt, 

Stories suggest that mogas takes significant time to do its damage, and your experience supports that theory. However, maybe the additive mix in New Mexico is a lucky brew we won't find in other regions. I've never put mogas in my tanks, but I was thinking about using mogas for extended X country trips that require say two or three tanks of fuel. If most of the mogas is consumed on the trip, and then you top off with 100LL upon returning home, your tank might end up with 20% mogas for a few days. Is it worth the risk to save $50 or $100? Perhaps the risk would be minimal or non-existent. Opinions?

Dennis


On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 10:55 AM, <nmflyer1 at aol.com> wrote:

Thanks!  


That is definitely some good information to know. I inspected my tanks this week. I have had Clean Mogas in there for about a year (being cycled through as I run things). So far, no problems. I used a scope to look around as well as checked for leaks and soft spots in the tanks/sump. 


Not knowing what blend of fuel you may get is the scary part. As was mentioned, there are many different blends based on company requests, location, time of year, etc. I suppose the only safe way to use Mogas in the V would be to find the exact name of the additive that is causing the problem. 


I am part owner in the 100LL fuel company at my Airpark. When we take delivery of our fuel load, we get a spec sheet that gives all the details of that fuel load. I would assume that that is a rule. 


One thing for sure, It is not worth the problems in the V to save a few bucks. 


Thanks again, 


Kurt 





-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Dawson <medawson250 at yahoo.com>
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Fri, Mar 16, 2012 10:37 am
Subject: REFLECTOR: Auto fuel



To all who use Auto fuel,
Here is Bill Mulrooney's response to my brother's inquiry of his auto fuel / mogas experience.
For those who do not know, Bill and his partner built a Velocity with a 427 V8...N427VA....it boogies!



Hi Bill,
"Sorry to hear your having issues also.  I live in West Bloomfield Michigan. I'd be happy to talk to you about your problems and what I've learned from my problems.  Alcohol isn't the problem, it's the fuel injector cleaners that they started adding 9 months ago.  It is such a small molecule it literally slips threw the Jeffco coating in the tanks.  Our tanks look perfect inside but the fittings in the sump tank and the foam in the stakes just took a shit on us!  I'm still pretty sick about it!  I'm going to make the sump tank out of aluminum and were removing the outer glass skins and foam and adding another coat of Jeffco to the outside of the inner skin followed by 8 to 10 layers of bid.  Then foam and then the outer layer of glass again.  The wheel wells are about 1/8 " of glass and they look perfect still.  Our plane has had auto fuel in it since 2004 with no problem till August 2012.  The vapor build up between the inner and outer glass and then popped the glass loose around the fuel fillers on both sides.  That was just after Oshkosh 2011.  Then the foam started to sink in on the glass.  Then we stopped flying it. "

Bill Mulrooney



I stopped by my non branded Commercial Fuel Network outlet yesterday and this is what I learned. While there is no Ethanol in their fuel they service several stations. IE Chevron, 76, Mobil, Shell etc. Fuel received from the refinery contains the additives for that company's fuel. Consequently the fuel they sell to me , as non branded with no Ethanol, contains different additives or blends of additives from each company. They guarantee no Ethanol but any combination of additives after that are anyone's guess. So Kurt et al take heed. I'll be using 100LL for now!
Mike Dawson




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-- 
All the best,
Dennis


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