REFLECTOR: Michaels Epoxy Pump or handpumps ?

Andrew Millin amillin at sbcglobal.net
Tue Jan 31 15:11:01 CST 2012


Hey Dave,

I do appreciate the concern and I do agree with you.  I would never have just 
decided on my own to use the West system.  I called the Velocity factory before 
I used it on the plane.  I was told that it was acceptable.  Not out to start a 
big discussion on what is and what isn't acceptable.  I just wanted to let you 
know that I checked before using.

Andy



________________________________
From: Dave T Nelson <dtnelson at us.ibm.com>
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Sent: Tue, January 31, 2012 3:49:17 PM
Subject: REFLECTOR: Michaels Epoxy Pump or handpumps ?


Andy... gotta say... and with all possible respect... 

Using West on anything structural is an absolute no-no at least among the EZ 
crowd.  Without complete testing, it should be a no-no in the Velocity crowd 
too.

SafeTpoxy was tested completely and thoroughly by Burt.  EZpoxy was a direct 
replacement.  If you use West for structure, you are going out on an untested 
limb, and the only way you'll know how far you've gone is when something really 
bad happens.  Please don't do that!  There was at least one communal experience 
in this among the EZ crowd... two builders in Brazil that built their Cozys with 
locally available "equivalent" epoxy.  One of them, Firmino Campos, suffered a 
structural failure in flight but was able to land the airplane without injury. 
 You might not be so lucky.

This is like one of many, many decisions one has to make while building... all 
of which boil down to this question - how much of a test pilot do you want to 
be?  
   
Dave

Dave T. Nelson
T/L 553-4327, Voice 507-253-4327, Fax 507-253-3648
Program Director, ISC ECAT NPI & Test Engineering

reflector-request---01/31/2012 12:25:28 PM---Send Reflector mailing list 
submissions to  reflector at tvbf.org




From: 
reflector-request at tvbf.org 


To: 
reflector at tvbf.org 


Date: 
01/31/2012 12:25 PM 


Subject: 
Reflector Digest, Vol 82, Issue 119 


Sent by: 
reflector-bounces at tvbf.org 
________________________________



Send Reflector mailing list submissions to
reflector at tvbf.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
reflector-request at tvbf.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
reflector-owner at tvbf.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Reflector digest..."
Today's Topics:

  1. Re:  Michaels Epoxy Pump or handpumps ? (Bob Jackson (Jax Tech))


----- Message from "Bob Jackson \(Jax Tech\)" <bobj at jaxtechllc.com> on Tue, 31 
Jan 2012 13:09:05 -0500 -----
To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'" <reflector at tvbf.org> 
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Michaels Epoxy Pump or handpumps ? Good observations and 
collection of tips, Andy!
 
Bob
 

________________________________
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf 
Of Andy Millin
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 11:45 AM
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Michaels Epoxy Pump or handpumps ?
 
Yes, you could use West System to build the whole plane.  The reason we don’t is 
that it costs more and even the slow hardener is must faster than the EZ-84 we 
use.  When doing the larger layups the longer work time is required.
 
If you get the fast hardener, you’ll want to have everything in place within 45 
minutes of initial mix.  For a larger layup that will require good prep.  If it 
is 80 degrees or more, you might have 30 minutes.  You’ll want to avoid larger 
batches as it is kicking harder and can exotherm on you.  I have had batches of 
micro exotherm with the West.  I consider this to be the nature of the beast, 
not really a downside.
 
I used it for most of the completion tasks and by then I was greatful for the 
speed.  With West I was able to complete a series of 3 layups in the same day. 
 That would have been 3 days minimum with EZ-84.
 
BTW, if you are doing fill work, you might want to look into West System 410, 
Microlight Faring Filler.  Use it like micro AND spot putty.  It spreads much 
better.  It sands better.  It feathers out beautifully.  It costs a more than 
micro, but … time vs. money.  A 5 oz container is approximately a gallon by 
volume.  Make sure you work it well on a booger board before you apply it; want 
the bubbles out (same with micro).
 
Another tip.  FWIW.  I stopped using sand paper for layup prep as well.  I was 
directed to 3M maroon Scotchbrite pads.  Again, they cost more, but they will 
get to the bottom of the weave almost immediately.  You’ll get a great scuff in 
a fraction of the time.  Buy the whole box at a premium auto paint supply store.
 
Andy
 
==========================
Andy Millin
amillin at sbcglobal.net
 
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf 
Of Patrick Sieders
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 5:04 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Michaels Epoxy Pump or handpumps ?
 
Well I guess the consensus told me he story that I was leaning towards. Andy’s 
idea about switching to West Systems product is something that I am going to 
research. I still have to turn the airplane over and lay down a layer on the top 
strake and the main spar. Could I use the West systems for that as well ? 
(before I reinvent the wheel ?)
 
Thanks all for the response. Sorry about the two emails, my computer crashed 
while sending my first email and when reflector didn’t send it back I concluded 
that it was not received and resend it, finding out afterwards Reflector had 
issues of its own.
 
gr. Patrick
 
 
From: Alex Balic 
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 12:05 PM
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list' 
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Michaels Epoxy Pump or handpumps ?
 
The Michaels unit is great when you need to mix a lot of epoxy at a time, or 
when you are working on a lot of layups that you are always needing the resin 
for- most of this work is early on in the building process. I used the Michaels 
pump with good success when building the flying surfaces and fuselage, but then 
it sat for a while, and got gummed up- I took it apart, and cleaned it up, then 
used it a couple of times before it sat and got gummed up again, so I just 
tossed it and started using a scale to measure the resin for all of the 
occasional small jobs I had.
 
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf 
Of John Dibble
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 8:42 AM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Michaels Epoxy Pump or handpumps ?
 
I second that.  I've never used a pump.  I use a scale that measures to 0.01 
gram.  I can mix as little as 5 grams with high precision for those really 
little jobs. 

John 
Jack Prock wrote:  
Hi Patrick, I have the expensive Michaels pump and it works great when moving a 
lot of epoxy through it, like when I was buildingmy wings and canard. But, if 
you aren't using a lot of epoxy, the pump tends to get gummed up.After I 
finished the big pieces, over time the epoxy tended to get sludgy and hard to 
move through the pump.I spent more time cleaning it than using it. If you only 
have small parts, just buy a good electronic scale and use hand pumping to 
measure outthe ratio. This works fine and you won't waste time with all that 
cleaning. My epoxy pump is now cleanedand empty and sitting in storage, while I 
finish the rest of the plane. Jack 
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Sieders
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 7:07 PM
Subject: REFLECTOR: Michaels Epoxy Pump or handpumps ?
  
Hello All, 
I would like some input into what epoxy pumps to buy. I know the difference, my 
question is more about if it’s worth it looking at the state of my project. 
Some may remember that I took over Tom Tolton’s XL5 Fg. Since the airplane hull 
is pretty much done, I am looking at some smaller epoxy projects to finish it 
up. 

So should I buy the more expensive Michaels ratio pump or could I suffice with 
the handpumps ? 
Take a look at my project as it sits in my garage right now ( 
http://www.sieders.com/sieders/velocity/index.htm ) and I would love to hear 
your opinion. 
Thanks, 
Patrick Sieders 
Nashville TN USA 
XL5-FG 

________________________________

_______________________________________________ 
To change your email address, visit 
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector 
Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery 
user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose 
Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail 
Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
 



________________________________


_______________________________________________
To change your email address, visit 
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html

________________________________
_______________________________________________
To change your email address, visit 
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector

Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html 

________________________________
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4775 - Release Date: 01/29/12

________________________________
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4778 - Release Date: 
01/31/12_______________________________________________
Visit the gallery!  tvbf:jamaicangoose
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/private/reflector/attachments/20120131/c71f19d8/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: graycol.gif
Type: image/gif
Size: 105 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/private/reflector/attachments/20120131/c71f19d8/attachment-0002.gif>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ecblank.gif
Type: image/gif
Size: 45 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/private/reflector/attachments/20120131/c71f19d8/attachment-0003.gif>


More information about the Reflector mailing list