REFLECTOR: How to fuel up and live to tell aboutit.(LaurenceCoen)
nmflyer1 at aol.com
nmflyer1 at aol.com
Sat Feb 4 20:16:02 CST 2012
Another wrench in the works: My aluminum fuel lines don't go "hardlined" to the engine. I have some rubber connector lines in there for isolation, maintenance, etc. Also, If you have the fittings sealed up tight with sealant, you may not have as good of a ground as you think.. even IF you are hardlined all the way from the tanks to the engine.
Kurt
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Velocity XLFG <VelocityXL at fastmail.fm>
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Sat, Feb 4, 2012 5:11 pm
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: How to fuel up and live to tell aboutit.(LaurenceCoen)
I sorry I am now very confused if a ground to a plastic container is need
nd the plastic is no conductive what is
he point. Seems to me this means as long as the tires are on the ground
here should be no need for grounding.
hich is not true. Contact with the fuel with a conductive material is
equired Right? So the aluminum Fuel line
unning from the tank to the engine Exhaust pipe to ground and you are
ully grounded Right?
Ron
-----Original Message-----
rom: sbjknox
ent: Friday, February 03, 2012 8:21 PM
o: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
ubject: Re: REFLECTOR: How to fuel up and live to tell
boutit.(LaurenceCoen)
>From below: "No laws of physics have been violated in the above. Please
tep away from your Ouija board and be safe."
ut is reads as if some are damaged or invented.
ef:
ttp://www.fs.fed.us/eng/pubs/pdfpubs/pdf95512323.pdf
or from Australia,
http://www.esdjournal.com/static/Static_Fires.pdf
and, "Let's also suppose that the planes fuel cap is removed and you get the
as can from the back of your pickup which happens to have a static charge.
ou attach the clamp and chain to the gas can so they now are carrying the
tatic charge. The chain hits the filler ring and you got a big problem."
or of you first drop the chain in the tank and then attach the clamp to the
an, if there is a discharge it is at the clamp-can interface out in the
pen air.
You do whatever you want... I'll fuel my airplane safely by ensuring that
here is no static potential difference between the can and the fuel in the
ank or filler hole or the Ouija board.
Sid Knox
klahoma
Velocity 173 RG N199RS
tarduster N666SK
R2 N24TC
7QJQ
----- Original Message -----
rom: "Laurence Coen" <lwcoen at hotmail.com>
o: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
ent: Friday, February 03, 2012 3:42 PM
ubject: Re: REFLECTOR: How to fuel up and live to tell about
t.(LaurenceCoen)
arl,
The fuel in the tank contains a distributed charge because it is a fluid.
ince it is a non-conductor it does not present a problem. The antistatic
at is redundant and would have to be connected to ground to be effective.
ince it will protect your paint, it might still be a good idea. Submerging
he nozzle in the fuel has no effect. Sid came up with a device to connect
non-conducting plastic gas can to to the non-conducting gas in the tank.
hat is a solution in want of a problem. One more time......You CAN NOT
round a non-conductor. Lets suppose that it's a metal gas can that can be
rounded. Let's also suppose that the planes fuel cap is removed and you
et the gas can from the back of your pickup which happens to have a static
harge. You attach the clamp and chain to the gas can so they now are
arrying the static charge. The chain hits the filler ring and you got a
ig problem.
The static electricity produced from fuel flowing into your tank is not a
roblem because it has nowhere to go so it remains static. Let me explain
ow you can set your plane on fire using this phenomena. Get a plastic gas
an and a metal funnel and set it under a fuel drain so that when you open
he drain gas flows into the funnel and fills the can. IF the fuel flows at
0 GPH it will take 30 minutes to fill a 5 gal can. Electrically speaking
he metal funnel is suspended in space. The flowing fuel will transfer it's
tatic charge to the funnel until it becomes high enough to ionize the air
n contact with it. You've all seen this happen before. It's called
ightning. In this it's called corona discharge. It's not spectacular like
ightning but the resulting fire will be.
No laws of physics have been violated in the above. Please step away from
our Ouija board and be safe.
Larry Coen
136LC
rom: Karl J. Warner
ent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 12:29 PM
o: reflector at tvbf.org
ubject: Re: REFLECTOR: How to fuel up and live to tell about it.
LaurenceCoen)
arry, I'm also concerned about static on the surface of the fuel itself and
he additional frictional static charge created by the falling fuel. Your 2
ents on this list summation would be appreciated:
ueling a composite airplane...
1.. Ground pump/truck Airplane onto exhaust or engine.
2.. Put antistatic mat around filler cap.
3.. Leave the gas cap on until you have the fuel filler nozzle in your
ther hand.
4.. Use free hand to open the gas cap. This puts the nozzle, you and the
as cap/filler ring all at ground potential before combustible vapor is
vailable.
5.. Flowing gas produces additional static electricity so make sure the
ozzle remains:
a.. in contact with the filler ring AND
b.. submersed in fuel during the fueling process if possible.
6.. Replace cap and latch before going to the next tank.
7.. Repeat.
8.. Unground airplane.
arl
n Jan 31, 2012, at 2:32 PM, reflector-request at tvbf.org wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. How to fuel up and live to tell about it. (Laurence Coen)
2. P.S.: No gloves (Laurence Coen)
3. Re: Reflector down (Brian Michalk)
From: "Laurence Coen" <lwcoen at hotmail.com>
Date: January 31, 2012 2:15:07 PM EST
To: "reflector16" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Subject: REFLECTOR: How to fuel up and live to tell about it.
Reply-To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
All.
It’s winter and the time for static electricity. It's also the time for
ueling accidents. Last week in Kansas City someone totaled his Chevy
ickup at the gas pump to say nothing of what he did to the canopy he was
arked under. This was all caught in the station surveillance camera. The
entleman was sitting in his truck with the door open and the gas hose
illing the tank. He then slid off the seat, turning himself into a 40
housand volt time bomb. He walked back and grabbed the fill nozzle. FOOM!
ince fill nozzles have to be grounded by law and it was in contact with the
ll metal truck, this was not a grounding problem of the vehicle. If this
uy had of touched anything metal as he slid of the seat this would not have
appened.
You can ground the metal stuff on a Velocity but you cannot, no matter how
ard you try, ground your fuel tank wings or the gas in the tank because
hey are all non-conductors. The metal ring for the fuel cap is metal and
an have a static charge if it is not wired to the ground of the plane and
ou attach the ground clip like you're suppose to.
If you follow this technique it won't matter if it's grounded or not.
eave the gas cap in place until the plane is grounded and you have the fuel
ozzle in your hand Now use your free hand to open the gas cap. This will
uarantee that the nozzle, you and the gas cap/filler ring are all at ground
otential before combustible vapor is available. Flowing gas will produce
tatic electricity so make sure the nozzle remains in contact with the ring
uring fueling. Replace and latch the cap before going to the next tank.
epeat.
Larry Coen
N136LC
From: "Laurence Coen" <lwcoen at hotmail.com>
Date: January 31, 2012 2:25:48 PM EST
To: "reflector16" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Subject: REFLECTOR: P.S.: No gloves
Reply-To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
You can put your gloves back on after the nozzle is in the tank. And
on't wander off and slide across your seat covers.
Larry Coen
N136LC
From: Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com>
Date: January 31, 2012 2:35:44 PM EST
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector down
Reply-To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Juanita bought an industrial sewing machine off CraigsList, and made some
ery nice leather seats out of leather that someone here on the Reflector
rranged a group buy for.
They are pretty heavy with confor-foam, but are very comfortable.
The rest is a combination of carpet from Wal-Mart, I think, and some
abric she bought.
For now, it looks pretty good, and we've talked about redoing it in a few
ears. I just happened to take a shot of the back seats. I'll try to get
ome better pictures this weekend.
<jfcbdbdf.jpg>
On 1/30/2012 6:56 PM, Douglas Holub wrote:
Hi Brian,
I'm about to put my interior in after flying the plane for about 135
ours. We had the seats and the glare shield upholstered before we started
lying, so now we just need carpet, side panels, and the headliner. My
anity panel is varnished wood.
A few years ago Scott Baker suggested that I could get a good quality,
elatively inexpensive interior by hiring a local hot rodders custom
nteriors shop, so I think that's what I'm going to do. What did you do? Got
ny pictures?
Doug Holub
2009 Standard FG w/ electric nose lift
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Michalk
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector down
You are welcome.
My project is dangerously close to flying again.
We just put in the interior, and wow, that makes a big difference.
nlike you, we are planning to paint after flying the plane for a while.
his weekend I primered the wings, and wow, that makes a big difference too.
I've got some details to finish for the annual, like new batteries and
uch, but most of the remaining items are administrative, like my medical,
FR, getting my repairmans certificate so I can sign off the annual, and
lso a new weight and balance.
I still need to do engine tuning as well. Then it's time for taxi
esting.
On 1/29/2012 11:39 PM, nmflyer1 at aol.com wrote:
Brian,
Yet another "thank you" for you work done and ongoing.
How's the project?
Kurt
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com>
To: Laurence Coen <lwcoen at hotmail.com>
Cc: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Sun, Jan 29, 2012 7:49 pm
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector down
Laurence, and Reflector:
I've been having issues with the email this week after I moved the
nternal network addressing scheme. It appears to be related to DNS taking
onger than previously, which backs up the mail server, because it must then
eep connections open for longer. If it weren't for the high spam volume,
y server wouldn't have anything to do.
I should have the problem resolved this weekend.
On 1/27/2012 2:36 PM, Laurence Coen wrote:
Brian,
Messages are getting to the archives but not being posted to the
ubscribers. I posted a reply to a Chris Barber question on 1/23/2012 that
ailed to echo on the reflector. The email from Chris is the last Reflector
essage that I have seen. I checked my profile and it looks fine. The
rchives now contain more messages wondering where the Reflector went.
Larry Coen
N136LC
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