REFLECTOR: How to fuel up and live to tell about it.(LaurenceCoen)
John Dibble
aminetech at bluefrog.com
Fri Feb 3 17:33:24 CST 2012
I think it unlikely that a gas can or any thing else (excepting a
capacitor) will just happen to have a static charge. That's because,
contrary to it's name, a static charge doesn't remain static very long.
Rub a balloon on your head or clothing and the resulting charge will
make it stick, but after several seconds, that effect will go away. The
thing to be aware of is that rubbing 2 solid, non-conducting materials
together, is a common means of producing a temporary static charge.
John
Laurence Coen wrote:
> Karl, The fuel in the tank contains a distributed charge because it
> is a fluid. Since it is a non-conductor it does not present a
> problem. The antistatic mat is redundant and would have to be
> connected to ground to be effective. Since it will protect your
> paint, it might still be a good idea. Submerging the nozzle in the
> fuel has no effect. Sid came up with a device to connect a
> non-conducting plastic gas can to to the non-conducting gas in the
> tank. That is a solution in want of a problem. One more
> time......You CAN NOT ground a non-conductor. Lets suppose that it's
> a metal gas can that can be grounded. Let's also suppose that the
> planes fuel cap is removed and you get the gas can from the back of
> your pickup which happens to have a static charge. You attach the
> clamp and chain to the gas can so they now are carrying the static
> charge. The chain hits the filler ring and you got a big problem. The
> static electricity produced from fuel flowing into your tank is not a
> problem because it has nowhere to go so it remains static. Let me
> explain how you can set your plane on fire using this phenomena. Get
> a plastic gas can and a metal funnel and set it under a fuel drain so
> that when you open the drain gas flows into the funnel and fills the
> can. IF the fuel flows at 10 GPH it will take 30 minutes to fill a 5
> gal can. Electrically speaking the metal funnel is suspended in
> space. The flowing fuel will transfer it's static charge to the
> funnel until it becomes high enough to ionize the air in contact with
> it. You've all seen this happen before. It's called lightning. In
> this it's called corona discharge. It's not spectacular like
> lightning but the resulting fire will be. No laws of physics have been
> violated in the above. Please step away from your Ouija board and be
> safe. Larry CoenN136LC
> From: Karl J. Warner
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 12:29 PMTo:
> reflector at tvbf.orgSubject: Re: REFLECTOR: How to fuel up and live to
> tell about it. (LaurenceCoen)
> Larry, I'm also concerned about static on the surface of the fuel
> itself and the additional frictional static charge created by the
> falling fuel. Your 2 cents on this list summation would be
> appreciated: Fueling a composite airplane...
>
> 1. Ground pump/truck Airplane onto exhaust or engine.
> 2. Put antistatic mat around filler cap.
> 3. Leave the gas cap on until you have the fuel filler nozzle in
> your other hand.
> 4. Use free hand to open the gas cap. This puts the nozzle, you and
> the gas cap/filler ring all at ground potential before
> combustible vapor is available.
> 5. Flowing gas produces additional static electricity so make sure
> the nozzle remains:
> o in contact with the filler ring AND
> o submersed in fuel during the fueling process if possible.
> 6. Replace cap and latch before going to the next tank.
> 7. Repeat.
> 8. Unground airplane.
>
> KarlOn Jan 31, 2012, at 2:32 PM, reflector-request at tvbf.org wrote:
>
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>>
>> 1. How to fuel up and live to tell about it. (Laurence Coen)
>> 2. P.S.: No gloves (Laurence Coen)
>> 3. Re: Reflector down (Brian Michalk)
>>
>> From: "Laurence Coen" <lwcoen at hotmail.com>
>> Date: January 31, 2012 2:15:07 PM EST
>> To: "reflector16" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: How to fuel up and live to tell about it.
>> Reply-To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>> <reflector at tvbf.org>
>>
>>
>> All. It’s winter and the time for static electricity. It's also the
>> time for fueling accidents. Last week in Kansas City someone
>> totaled his Chevy pickup at the gas pump to say nothing of what he
>> did to the canopy he was parked under. This was all caught in the
>> station surveillance camera. The gentleman was sitting in his truck
>> with the door open and the gas hose filling the tank. He then slid
>> off the seat, turning himself into a 40 thousand volt time bomb. He
>> walked back and grabbed the fill nozzle. FOOM! Since fill nozzles
>> have to be grounded by law and it was in contact with the all metal
>> truck, this was not a grounding problem of the vehicle. If this guy
>> had of touched anything metal as he slid of the seat this would not
>> have happened. You can ground the metal stuff on a Velocity but you
>> cannot, no matter how hard you try, ground your fuel tank wings or
>> the gas in the tank because they are all non-conductors. The metal
>> ring for the fuel cap is metal and can have a static charge if it is
>> not wired to the ground of the plane and you attach the ground clip
>> like you're suppose to. If you follow this technique it won't matter
>> if it's grounded or not. Leave the gas cap in place until the plane
>> is grounded and you have the fuel nozzle in your hand Now use your
>> free hand to open the gas cap. This will guarantee that the nozzle,
>> you and the gas cap/filler ring are all at ground potential before
>> combustible vapor is available. Flowing gas will produce static
>> electricity so make sure the nozzle remains in contact with the ring
>> during fueling. Replace and latch the cap before going to the next
>> tank. Repeat. Larry CoenN136LC
>>
>>
>>
>> From: "Laurence Coen" <lwcoen at hotmail.com>
>> Date: January 31, 2012 2:25:48 PM EST
>> To: "reflector16" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: P.S.: No gloves
>> Reply-To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>> <reflector at tvbf.org>
>>
>>
>> You can put your gloves back on after the nozzle is in the tank.
>> And don't wander off and slide across your seat covers. Larry
>> CoenN136LC
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com>
>> Date: January 31, 2012 2:35:44 PM EST
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector down
>> Reply-To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>> <reflector at tvbf.org>
>>
>>
>> Juanita bought an industrial sewing machine off CraigsList, and made
>> some very nice leather seats out of leather that someone here on the
>> Reflector arranged a group buy for.
>> They are pretty heavy with confor-foam, but are very comfortable.
>>
>> The rest is a combination of carpet from Wal-Mart, I think, and some
>> fabric she bought.
>>
>> For now, it looks pretty good, and we've talked about redoing it in
>> a few years. I just happened to take a shot of the back seats.
>> I'll try to get some better pictures this weekend.
>>
>> <jfcbdbdf.jpg>
>>
>> On 1/30/2012 6:56 PM, Douglas Holub wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Brian, I'm about to put my interior in after flying the plane
>> > for about 135 hours. We had the seats and the glare shield
>> > upholstered before we started flying, so now we just need carpet,
>> > side panels, and the headliner. My vanity panel is varnished
>> > wood. A few years ago Scott Baker suggested that I could get a good
>> > quality, relatively inexpensive interior by hiring a local hot
>> > rodders custom interiors shop, so I think that's what I'm going to
>> > do. What did you do? Got any pictures? Doug Holub2009 Standard FG
>> > w/ electric nose lift
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Brian Michalk
>> > To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>> > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 5:31 PM
>> > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector down
>> > You are welcome.
>> >
>> > My project is dangerously close to flying again.
>> > We just put in the interior, and wow, that makes a big
>> > difference. Unlike you, we are planning to paint after
>> > flying the plane for a while. This weekend I primered
>> > the wings, and wow, that makes a big difference too.
>> >
>> > I've got some details to finish for the annual, like new
>> > batteries and such, but most of the remaining items are
>> > administrative, like my medical, BFR, getting my
>> > repairmans certificate so I can sign off the annual, and
>> > also a new weight and balance.
>> >
>> > I still need to do engine tuning as well. Then it's time
>> > for taxi testing.
>> >
>> > On 1/29/2012 11:39 PM, nmflyer1 at aol.com wrote:
>> >
>> > > Brian, Yet another "thank you" for you work done and
>> > > ongoing. How's the project? Kurt
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com>
>> > > To: Laurence Coen <lwcoen at hotmail.com>
>> > > Cc: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>> > > <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> > > Sent: Sun, Jan 29, 2012 7:49 pm
>> > > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector down
>> > >
>> > > Laurence, and Reflector:
>> > >
>> > > I've been having issues with the email this week after
>> > > I moved the internal network addressing scheme. It
>> > > appears to be related to DNS taking longer than
>> > > previously, which backs up the mail server, because it
>> > > must then keep connections open for longer. If it
>> > > weren't for the high spam volume, my server wouldn't
>> > > have anything to do.
>> > >
>> > > I should have the problem resolved this weekend.
>> > >
>> > > On 1/27/2012 2:36 PM, Laurence Coen wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Brian, Messages are getting to the archives but not
>> > > > being posted to the subscribers. I posted a reply to
>> > > > a Chris Barber question on 1/23/2012 that failed to
>> > > > echo on the reflector. The email from Chris is the
>> > > > last Reflector message that I have seen. I checked
>> > > > my profile and it looks fine. The archives now
>> > > > contain more messages wondering where the Reflector
>> > > > went. Larry CoenN136LC
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
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>> >
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