REFLECTOR: 4th test flight
Michael Watson
mikewatsspg at gmail.com
Sun Aug 26 18:32:42 CDT 2012
Geoff,
I think you are right on with your assumptions. Larry Coen may be right.
Please try this.
Place the stick in the center position, go under the rear of each wing.
place a straight edge on the bottom of the wing from the center of the wing
to the trailing tip of the ailerons. There should not be any space between
the
strait edge and the trailing edge of the ailerons. If there is, it means
that
the lower leading edge of the ailerons is in the airstream and is being
pushed up
at speed.
If this is the case, you can either build up the lower trailing edge of the
wing to be level
with the lower leading of the aileron or, sand down the lower leading edge
of the aileron
to match the wing. The leading edge of the ailerons should be round with
no sharp edges.
Good luck,
On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 2:31 PM, Laurence Coen <lwcoen at hotmail.com> wrote:
> David,
>
> Let me try once more. You are assuming the problem is with the wing
> incidence in which case the trim tab fix isn't a fix at all. The fact that
> the plane flies straight with the ailerons held in neutral would indicate
> no incidence problem. If you have to deflect the ailerons to stop the roll
> the plane will be flying straight but with excessive drag which is the
> effect of a wing incidence problem. Releasing the stick causes the
> ailerons to deflect which indicates the ailerons are asymmetric, not the
> wings. If the trim tab fixes the problem then it is proof that it is an
> aileron problem and you can start looking for the cause. When you find and
> fix the cause the trim tab can be easily removed.
>
> Lazy Larry
> N136LC
>
> ------------------------------**--------------------
> From: "David Ullman" <ullman at robustdecisions.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 10:25 PM
> To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight
>
> Geoff
>> I respectfully disagree with Lazy Larry. The trim tab fix just means that
>> your plane is flying crabwise. It will be faster and handle better if you
>> figure out the asymmetry and fix it.
>>
>> I want my plane as true as possible so it is as fast as possible.
>>
>> Stick with your level idea. Easier if you have a digital level, then you
>> can read the angles at various places very easy.
>>
>> David Ullman
>> N444DX
>> President EAA 292
>> 541-754-3609
>> david at davidullman.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces@**tvbf.org<reflector-bounces at tvbf.org>]
>> On
>> Behalf Of reflector-request at tvbf.org
>> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 7:15 PM
>> To: reflector at tvbf.org
>> Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 89, Issue 118
>>
>> Send Reflector mailing list submissions to
>> reflector at tvbf.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/**listinfo/reflector<http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> reflector-request at tvbf.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> reflector-owner at tvbf.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Reflector digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists (Laurence Coen)
>> 2. Armstrong (David Ullman)
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
>> ----------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 20:41:25 -0500
>> From: "Laurence Coen" <lwcoen at hotmail.com>
>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
>> Message-ID: <SNT117-**DS15E62CDA846DC973A039C7D3A30@**phx.gbl>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Geoff,
>>
>> I agree with Alex. People trying to convince you that you didn't see what
>> you saw is because it doesn't jibe with their theory on wing incidence. As
>> to what is causing the asymmetry you could spend years trying to figure
>> that out. The good news is that it really doesn't matter what the cause
>> because the fix is cheap and simple. If you want easy you need to find a
>> really lazy guy. That would be me, "Lazy Larry". I'm also cheap! Get a
>> small piece of flat aluminum like the roofers use and cut out a rectangle
>> about 2" x 1" and round off the corners so you don't hurt yourself. Bend
>> it
>> along the long axis center for about a 5 degree droop. Silicone it to the
>> bottom of the right aileron inboard. Go fly and bend it up or down till
>> it's just right. This solution comes with the "Lazy Larry" 100% lifetime
>> warrantee. If it don't work, peel it off and throw it away.
>>
>> Larry Coen
>> N136LC
>>
>>
>> From: Alex Balic
>> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 7:54 PM
>> To: geoff.gerhardt at gmail.com ; 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders
>> list'
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
>>
>>
>> So, if the ailerons are forced to neutral, then the plane no longer tries
>> to
>> roll? And when not flying, they are neutral with no force on the stick?
>>
>> If so, I would guess that they are not symmetrical either in chord,
>> length
>> or cross section if the airflow is the only thing causing the force to
>> exist
>> on them and by forcing them back to neutral the roll goes away. If the
>> wings needed shimming, then you would fly roll-free with some aileron
>> deflection.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces@**tvbf.org<reflector-bounces at tvbf.org>]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Geoff Gerhardt
>> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 6:38 AM
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
>>
>>
>>
>> Alex/Steve,
>>
>>
>>
>> That was my first thought, too, but in order to get it to fly level,
>> pressure on the stick is needed to keep the ailerons to neutral. If I let
>> the stick go, the left aileron wants to come up, right goes down. If it
>> were a wing shimming issue, I'd expect that the ailerons would need to be
>> pushed into a non-neutral position to counteract the effect of improperly
>> aligned wings.
>>
>>
>>
>> Before flying the plane, my ailerons were positioned so that the trailing
>> edges were level with the wings. After the third flight when I noticed
>> this
>> left roll tendency, I adjusted them so they drooped ~1/8". I think it
>> helped a little, but did not eliminate the left roll tendency.
>>
>>
>>
>> Geoff
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Alex Balic <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Possibly the wings need shimming
>>
>>
>>
>> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces@**tvbf.org<reflector-bounces at tvbf.org>]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Geoff Gerhardt
>> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 7:38 PM
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>>
>>
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
>>
>>
>>
>> Guys,
>>
>>
>>
>> I went on my fourth test flight this afternoon. Still have butterflies
>> before the flight and check things over like I have OCD (yes, the canard
>> bolts are still there, for the fourth time...).
>>
>>
>>
>> Dealing with a few issues now that I've left the pattern and brought it up
>> to speed. I noticed on the third flight that it wants to roll to the
>> left.
>> This is not a yaw (ball's in the center), but a definite roll that
>> requires
>> right pressure on the stick to fly level at 140kts (more pressure for
>> higher
>> speed). Aileron trim isn't enough to take it out. On that third flight,
>> when I was flying level at 140ks by using right stick pressure, when I
>> looked back I could see that the trailing edges of both ailerons were a
>> little higher than the wing. So, before the fourth flight, I drooped both
>> down so they were ~1/8" below the wing (they were level before at rest),
>> but
>> this did not have much effect on the roll tendency (although the ailerons
>> were level or drooping at speed). It definitely seems to be an aileron
>> issue. When I'm flying level (using right stick pressure), the ailerons
>> seem to be in an equal position. Letting the stick go, the right aileron
>> comes up, left down an!
>> d it rolls. Any other ideas on things to check?
>>
>>
>>
>> Slow flight went very well, nice control down to 60kts. Easy 180 turn,
>> then
>> back the other way holding altitude.
>>
>>
>>
>> Geoff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
>> ----------------
>> ----
>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> To change your email address, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/**listinfo/reflector<http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector>
>>
>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/**velocity/maillist.html<http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html>
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 19:14:09 -0700
>> From: "David Ullman" <ullman at robustdecisions.com>
>> To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Armstrong
>> Message-ID: <05d801cd8330$7a829720$**6f87c560$@com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> I met him once in a meeting at Wright Pat back in the mid 70s. He was
>> really bored. I would be bored too if I had walked on the moon a few
>> years
>> earlier. We have lost a true hero. He never capitalized on his fame. Did
>> his job well and moved on to the next challenge.
>>
>> David Ullman
>> N444DX
>> President EAA 292
>> 541-754-3609
>> david at davidullman.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces@**tvbf.org<reflector-bounces at tvbf.org>]
>> On
>> Behalf Of reflector-request at tvbf.org
>> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 6:33 PM
>> To: reflector at tvbf.org
>> Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 89, Issue 117
>>
>> Send Reflector mailing list submissions to
>> reflector at tvbf.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/**listinfo/reflector<http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> reflector-request at tvbf.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> reflector-owner at tvbf.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Reflector digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Navy Man (David Rene Dugas)
>> 2. Re: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists (Alex Balic)
>> 3. Re: Reflector Digest, Vol 89, Issue 112 (Alex Balic)
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
>> ----------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 19:15:53 -0500
>> From: David Rene Dugas <renedugas at gmail.com>
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Navy Man
>> Message-ID: <937E98C1-196E-4D6E-9D5B-**92A0940C2716 at gmail.com<937E98C1-196E-4D6E-9D5B-92A0940C2716 at gmail.com>
>> >
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> The right man in the right place with the right equipment and a planet
>> full
>> of drive can do amazing things if they will risk it all.
>> Cudos to an amazing guy. Oh yeah.
>> Go Navy. Go Armstrong.
>>
>> Rene' Dugas
>> Sent from my iPhone4S
>>
>> On Aug 25, 2012, at 3:16 PM, Mark Magee <edjonesbrady at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> You guys know a Navy Man was the first one to step foot on the moon?
>>> No glass flight decks back then.
>>> An era has ended.
>>>
>>> Mark B. Magee
>>> N34XL
>>> Sent from IPhone 4
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> To change your email address, visit
>>>
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/**listinfo/reflector<http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector>
>>
>>>
>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/**
>>> velocity/maillist.html<http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 19:54:43 -0500
>> From: "Alex Balic" <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
>> To: <geoff.gerhardt at gmail.com>, "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and
>> Builders list'" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
>> Message-ID: <00d601cd8325$61788790$**246996b0$@net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> So, if the ailerons are forced to neutral, then the plane no longer tries
>> to
>> roll? And when not flying, they are neutral with no force on the stick?
>>
>> If so, I would guess that they are not symmetrical either in chord,
>> length
>> or cross section if the airflow is the only thing causing the force to
>> exist
>> on them and by forcing them back to neutral the roll goes away. If the
>> wings needed shimming, then you would fly roll-free with some aileron
>> deflection.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces@**tvbf.org<reflector-bounces at tvbf.org>]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Geoff Gerhardt
>> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 6:38 AM
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
>>
>>
>>
>> Alex/Steve,
>>
>>
>>
>> That was my first thought, too, but in order to get it to fly level,
>> pressure on the stick is needed to keep the ailerons to neutral. If I let
>> the stick go, the left aileron wants to come up, right goes down. If it
>> were a wing shimming issue, I'd expect that the ailerons would need to be
>> pushed into a non-neutral position to counteract the effect of improperly
>> aligned wings.
>>
>>
>>
>> Before flying the plane, my ailerons were positioned so that the trailing
>> edges were level with the wings. After the third flight when I noticed
>> this
>> left roll tendency, I adjusted them so they drooped ~1/8". I think it
>> helped a little, but did not eliminate the left roll tendency.
>>
>>
>>
>> Geoff
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Alex Balic <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Possibly the wings need shimming
>>
>>
>>
>> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces@**tvbf.org<reflector-bounces at tvbf.org>]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Geoff Gerhardt
>> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 7:38 PM
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>>
>>
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
>>
>>
>>
>> Guys,
>>
>>
>>
>> I went on my fourth test flight this afternoon. Still have butterflies
>> before the flight and check things over like I have OCD (yes, the canard
>> bolts are still there, for the fourth time...).
>>
>>
>>
>> Dealing with a few issues now that I've left the pattern and brought it up
>> to speed. I noticed on the third flight that it wants to roll to the
>> left.
>> This is not a yaw (ball's in the center), but a definite roll that
>> requires
>> right pressure on the stick to fly level at 140kts (more pressure for
>> higher
>> speed). Aileron trim isn't enough to take it out. On that third flight,
>> when I was flying level at 140ks by using right stick pressure, when I
>> looked back I could see that the trailing edges of both ailerons were a
>> little higher than the wing. So, before the fourth flight, I drooped both
>> down so they were ~1/8" below the wing (they were level before at rest),
>> but
>> this did not have much effect on the roll tendency (although the ailerons
>> were level or drooping at speed). It definitely seems to be an aileron
>> issue. When I'm flying level (using right stick pressure), the ailerons
>> seem to be in an equal position. Letting the stick go, the right aileron
>> comes up, left down and it rolls. Any other ideas on things to check?
>>
>>
>>
>> Slow flight went very well, nice control down to 60kts. Easy 180 turn,
>> then
>> back the other way holding altitude.
>>
>>
>>
>> Geoff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL:
>> <http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/**private/reflector/attachments/**
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>> /attachment-0001.html>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 20:31:49 -0500
>> From: "Alex Balic" <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
>> To: <geoff.gerhardt at gmail.com>, "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and
>> Builders list'" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 89, Issue 112
>> Message-ID: <00e701cd832a$92699330$**b73cb990$@net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> If you are rolling left, then either put a washer in the upper bolt on the
>> right wing, or the lower bolt of the left wing- it will add right roll (
>> to
>> correct) there could be a slight profile difference that is causing more
>> lift on one wing than the other- should not take long to do it- you can
>> use
>> "U" shaped shims to test, (so you don't have to remove the bolts) then
>> replace with washers when you get corrected.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces@**tvbf.org<reflector-bounces at tvbf.org>]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Geoff Gerhardt
>> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 6:19 PM
>> To: Jean Prudhomme; Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 89, Issue 112
>>
>>
>>
>> Jean,
>>
>>
>>
>> Are you saying that you torqued the wing by only putting a washer in one
>> bolt location? Because its a roll issue, not a yaw issue, I'm assuming I
>> should be looking for a incidence angle difference between them. I
>> thought
>> the best way to do this would be to use a digital inclinometer and compare
>> the angles of the trailing edges of the wings where there's a nice flat
>> surface.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your help.
>>
>>
>>
>> Geoff
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 6:02 PM, Jean Prudhomme <prudhommejean at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> As builder of several Velocity it,s happen a couple of time and i had to
>> put
>> washer between spars at upper or lower bolt position to twist the wing and
>> finally have the correction done
>>
>>
>>
>> JEAN PRUDHOMME
>>
>> Sales Associate
>>
>> CANADA REALTY INC
>>
>> POMPANO BEACH FLORIDA
>>
>> Tel:754-366-1780
>>
>> Toll free: 866-439-5011
>>
>> http://jeanprudhomme.**southfloridamls.com/<http://jeanprudhomme.southfloridamls.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: "reflector-request at tvbf.org" <reflector-request at tvbf.org>
>> To: reflector at tvbf.org
>> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 4:36 PM
>> Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 89, Issue 112
>>
>>
>> Send Reflector mailing list submissions to
>> reflector at tvbf.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/**listinfo/reflector<http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> reflector-request at tvbf.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> reflector-owner at tvbf.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Reflector digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists (steve korney)
>> 2. Navy Man (Mark Magee)
>> 3. Re: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists (Richard J. Gentil)
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
>> ----------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 20:15:03 +0000
>> From: steve korney <s_korney at hotmail.com>
>> To: Reflector Reflector <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
>> Message-ID: <SNT127-**W21BE981B00B795ABE7E4B3E7BC0@**phx.gbl>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>
>>
>> Geoff...
>>
>> The ailerons are free floating... They should set themselves by
>> aerodynamic
>> forces of airflow...When you let go of the stick, the ailerons should
>> take a
>> position on their own and should be the same on both sides no matter what
>> the aircraft is doing...
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> From: lwcoen at hotmail.com
>> To: geoff.gerhardt at gmail.com; reflector at tvbf.org
>> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 12:39:04 -0500
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Geoff,
>>
>> From what you are describing it sounds like the ailerons are
>>>
>> being deflected aerodynamically. You might want to look at the bottom
>> forward edge of the left aileron to see if it extends below the lower
>> surface of
>> the wing when it?s held in the neutral position. Since the ailerons are
>> hinged at the top, any increase of drag on the left compared to the right
>> would
>> cause the effect you're seeing.
>>
>> Larry Coen
>> N136LC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Geoff Gerhardt
>> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 6:37 AM
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency
>> persists
>>
>> Alex/Steve,
>>
>>
>> That was my first thought, too, but in order to get it to fly level,
>> pressure on the stick is needed to keep the ailerons to neutral. If I let
>> the stick go, the left aileron wants to come up, right goes down. If it
>> were a wing shimming issue, I'd expect that the ailerons would need to be
>> pushed
>> into a non-neutral position to counteract the effect of improperly aligned
>> wings.
>>
>>
>> Before flying the plane, my ailerons were positioned so that the trailing
>> edges were level with the wings. After the third flight when I noticed
>> this left roll tendency, I adjusted them so they drooped ~1/8". I think
>> it
>> helped a little, but did not eliminate the left roll tendency.
>>
>>
>> Geoff
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Alex Balic <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Possibly
>> the wings need shimming
>>
>>
>> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces@**tvbf.org<reflector-bounces at tvbf.org>]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Geoff
>> Gerhardt
>> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 7:38 PM
>> To:
>> Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>>
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency
>> persists
>>
>>
>> Guys,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I went on my fourth test flight this afternoon. Still
>> have butterflies before the flight and check things over like I have OCD
>> (yes,
>> the canard bolts are still there, for the fourth time...).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dealing with a few issues now that I've left the pattern
>> and brought it up to speed. I noticed on the third flight that it wants
>> to roll to the left. This is not a yaw (ball's in the center), but a
>> definite roll that requires right pressure on the stick to fly level at
>> 140kts
>> (more pressure for higher speed). Aileron trim isn't enough to take it
>> out. On that third flight, when I was flying level at 140ks by using
>> right stick pressure, when I looked back I could see that the trailing
>> edges
>> of both ailerons were a little higher than the wing. So, before the
>> fourth flight, I drooped both down so they were ~1/8" below the wing
>> (they
>>
>> were level before at rest), but this did not have much effect on the roll
>> tendency (although the ailerons were level or drooping at speed). It
>> definitely seems to be an aileron issue. When I'm flying level (using
>> right stick pressure), the ailerons seem to be in an equal position.
>> Letting the stick go, the right aileron comes up, left down and it
>> rolls. Any other ideas on things to check?
>>
>>
>>
>> Slow flight went very well, nice control down to 60kts.
>> Easy 180 turn, then back the other way holding
>> altitude.
>>
>>
>>
>> Geoff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> To change your email
>> address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/**listinfo/reflector<http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector>
>>
>> Visit the
>> gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 15:16:58 -0500
>> From: Mark Magee <edjonesbrady at gmail.com>
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Navy Man
>> Message-ID: <5A62CBAF-9870-445E-9B44-**FC70374835F4 at gmail.com<5A62CBAF-9870-445E-9B44-FC70374835F4 at gmail.com>
>> >
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> You guys know a Navy Man was the first one to step foot on the moon?
>> No glass flight decks back then.
>> An era has ended.
>>
>> Mark B. Magee
>> N34XL
>> Sent from IPhone 4
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 16:35:58 -0400
>> From: "Richard J. Gentil" <richard at naples-air-center.com**>
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
>> Message-ID:
>> <F3674ACC-E17A-4F9C-9A53-**0B42BE2FB26B at naples-air-**center.com<F3674ACC-E17A-4F9C-9A53-0B42BE2FB26B at naples-air-center.com>
>> >
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Geoff,
>>
>> I would look to the incident angle of your wings, the faster you go, the
>> pronounced the turning tendency will be.
>>
>> Richard
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone 4 Classic
>>
>> On Aug 25, 2012, at 4:15 PM, steve korney <s_korney at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Geoff...
>>>
>>> The ailerons are free floating... They should set themselves by
>>>
>> aerodynamic forces of airflow...When you let go of the stick, the ailerons
>> should take a position on their own and should be the same on both sides
>> no
>> matter what the aircraft is doing...
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> From: lwcoen at hotmail.com
>>> To: geoff.gerhardt at gmail.com; reflector at tvbf.org
>>> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 12:39:04 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
>>>
>>> Geoff,
>>>
>>> From what you are describing it sounds like the ailerons are being
>>>
>> deflected aerodynamically. You might want to look at the bottom forward
>> edge of the left aileron to see if it extends below the lower surface of
>> the
>> wing when it?s held in the neutral position. Since the ailerons are
>> hinged
>> at the top, any increase of drag on the left compared to the right would
>> cause the effect you're seeing.
>>
>>>
>>> Larry Coen
>>> N136LC
>>>
>>> From: Geoff Gerhardt
>>> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 6:37 AM
>>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
>>>
>>> Alex/Steve,
>>>
>>> That was my first thought, too, but in order to get it to fly level,
>>>
>> pressure on the stick is needed to keep the ailerons to neutral. If I let
>> the stick go, the left aileron wants to come up, right goes down. If it
>> were a wing shimming issue, I'd expect that the ailerons would need to be
>> pushed into a non-neutral position to counteract the effect of improperly
>> aligned wings.
>>
>>>
>>> Before flying the plane, my ailerons were positioned so that the trailing
>>>
>> edges were level with the wings. After the third flight when I noticed
>> this
>> left roll tendency, I adjusted them so they drooped ~1/8". I think it
>> helped a little, but did not eliminate the left roll tendency.
>>
>>>
>>> Geoff
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Alex Balic <velocity_pilot at verizon.net
>>> >
>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Possibly the wings need shimming
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces@**tvbf.org<reflector-bounces at tvbf.org>]
>>> On
>>>
>> Behalf Of Geoff Gerhardt
>>
>>> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 7:38 PM
>>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>>>
>>>
>>> Subject: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Guys,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I went on my fourth test flight this afternoon. Still have butterflies
>>>
>> before the flight and check things over like I have OCD (yes, the canard
>> bolts are still there, for the fourth time...).
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dealing with a few issues now that I've left the pattern and brought it
>>> up
>>>
>> to speed. I noticed on the third flight that it wants to roll to the
>> left.
>> This is not a yaw (ball's in the center), but a definite roll that
>> requires right pressure on the stick to fly level at 140kts (more pressure
>> for higher speed). Aileron trim isn't enough to take it out. On that
>> third
>> flight, when I was flying level at 140ks by using right stick pressure,
>> when
>> I looked back I could see that the trailing edges of both ailerons were a
>> little higher than the wing. So, before the fourth flight, I drooped
>> both down so they were ~1/8" below the wing (they were level before at
>> rest), but this did not have much effect on the roll tendency (although
>> the
>> ailerons were level or drooping at speed). It definitely seems to be an
>> aileron issue. When I'm flying level (using right stick pressure), the
>> ailerons seem to be in an equal position. Letting the stick go, the right
>> aileron comes up, l!
>> eft down and it rolls. Any other ideas on things to check?
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Slow flight went very well, nice control down to 60kts. Easy 180 turn,
>>>
>> then back the other way holding altitude.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Geoff
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> To change your email address, visit
>>>
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/**listinfo/reflector<http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector>
>>
>>>
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>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
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>>> ______________________________**_________________ To change your email
>>>
>> address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/**listinfo/reflector<http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector>Visit the
>> gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose Check new
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>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> To change your email address, visit
>>>
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/**listinfo/reflector<http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector>
>>
>>>
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>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>
>> End of Reflector Digest, Vol 89, Issue 112
>> ********************************************
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> To change your email address, visit
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>
>> End of Reflector Digest, Vol 89, Issue 117
>> ********************************************
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>
>> End of Reflector Digest, Vol 89, Issue 118
>> ********************************************
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/**
>> listinfo/reflector <http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector>
>>
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>> ______________________________**_________________
> To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/**
> listinfo/reflector <http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector>
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
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> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
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--
Mike W.
1997 Velocity Elite RG
Franklin /IVO Electric CS
Dual GRT EFIS HX Synthetic Vision
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