REFLECTOR: Armstrong

Chris Barber cbarber at texasattorney.net
Sun Aug 26 09:48:33 CDT 2012


I let some of my admiration leak from my eyes hearing the news. Truly my hero. I will always be grateful to my parents for waking my sleepy little eight year old butt up to watch the walk. Dang, getting all girlie again thinking about it. . 

Chris

Sent from my iPhone 4

On Aug 25, 2012, at 9:16 PM, "David Ullman" <ullman at robustdecisions.com> wrote:

> I met him once in a meeting at Wright Pat back in the mid 70s.  He was
> really bored.  I would be bored too if I had walked on the moon a few years
> earlier.  We have lost a true hero.  He never capitalized on his fame.  Did
> his job well and moved on to the next challenge.  
> 
> David Ullman
> N444DX
> President EAA 292
> 541-754-3609
> david at davidullman.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of reflector-request at tvbf.org
> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 6:33 PM
> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 89, Issue 117
> 
> Send Reflector mailing list submissions to
>    reflector at tvbf.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    reflector-request at tvbf.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>    reflector-owner at tvbf.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Reflector digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re:  Navy Man (David Rene Dugas)
>   2. Re:  4th test flight - roll tendency persists (Alex Balic)
>   3. Re:  Reflector Digest, Vol 89, Issue 112 (Alex Balic)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 19:15:53 -0500
> From: David Rene Dugas <renedugas at gmail.com>
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Navy Man
> Message-ID: <937E98C1-196E-4D6E-9D5B-92A0940C2716 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
> 
> The right man in the right place with the right equipment and a planet full
> of drive can do amazing things if they will risk it all. 
> Cudos to an amazing guy. Oh yeah. 
> Go Navy. Go Armstrong. 
> 
> Rene' Dugas
> Sent from my iPhone4S
> 
> On Aug 25, 2012, at 3:16 PM, Mark Magee <edjonesbrady at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> You guys know a Navy Man was the first one to step foot on the moon? 
>> No glass flight decks back then.
>> An era has ended.
>> 
>> Mark B. Magee
>> N34XL
>> Sent from IPhone 4
>> _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> 
>> Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 19:54:43 -0500
> From: "Alex Balic" <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
> To: <geoff.gerhardt at gmail.com>, "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and
>    Builders list'" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
> Message-ID: <00d601cd8325$61788790$246996b0$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> So, if the ailerons are forced to neutral, then the plane no longer tries to
> roll?  And when not flying, they are neutral with no force on the stick? 
> 
> If so, I would guess that they  are not symmetrical either in chord, length
> or cross section if the airflow is the only thing causing the force to exist
> on them and by forcing them back to neutral the roll goes away.  If the
> wings needed shimming, then you would fly roll-free with some aileron
> deflection.
> 
> 
> 
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Geoff Gerhardt
> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 6:38 AM
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
> 
> 
> 
> Alex/Steve,
> 
> 
> 
> That was my first thought, too, but in order to get it to fly level,
> pressure on the stick is needed to keep the ailerons to neutral.  If I let
> the stick go, the left aileron wants to come up, right goes down.  If it
> were a wing shimming issue, I'd expect that the ailerons would need to be
> pushed into a non-neutral position to counteract the effect of improperly
> aligned wings.
> 
> 
> 
> Before flying the plane, my ailerons were positioned so that the trailing
> edges were level with the wings.  After the third flight when I noticed this
> left roll tendency, I adjusted them so they drooped ~1/8".  I think it
> helped a little, but did not eliminate the left roll tendency.
> 
> 
> 
> Geoff
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Alex Balic <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
> wrote:
> 
> Possibly the wings need shimming
> 
> 
> 
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Geoff Gerhardt
> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 7:38 PM
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> 
> 
> Subject: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
> 
> 
> 
> Guys,
> 
> 
> 
> I went on my fourth test flight this afternoon.  Still have butterflies
> before the flight and check things over like I have OCD (yes, the canard
> bolts are still there, for the fourth time...).  
> 
> 
> 
> Dealing with a few issues now that I've left the pattern and brought it up
> to speed.  I noticed on the third flight that it wants to roll to the left.
> This is not a yaw (ball's in the center), but a definite roll that requires
> right pressure on the stick to fly level at 140kts (more pressure for higher
> speed).  Aileron trim isn't enough to take it out.  On that third flight,
> when I was flying level at 140ks by using right stick pressure, when I
> looked back I could see that the trailing edges of both ailerons were a
> little higher than the wing.  So, before the fourth flight, I drooped both
> down so they were ~1/8" below the wing (they were level before at rest), but
> this did not have much effect on the roll tendency (although the ailerons
> were level or drooping at speed).  It definitely seems to be an aileron
> issue.  When I'm flying level (using right stick pressure), the ailerons
> seem to be in an equal position.  Letting the stick go, the right aileron
> comes up, left down and it rolls.  Any other ideas on things to check?
> 
> 
> 
> Slow flight went very well, nice control down to 60kts.  Easy 180 turn, then
> back the other way holding altitude.
> 
> 
> 
> Geoff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 20:31:49 -0500
> From: "Alex Balic" <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
> To: <geoff.gerhardt at gmail.com>, "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and
>    Builders list'" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 89, Issue 112
> Message-ID: <00e701cd832a$92699330$b73cb990$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> If you are rolling left, then either put a washer in the upper bolt on the
> right wing, or the lower bolt of the left wing- it will add right roll ( to
> correct)  there could be a slight profile  difference that is causing more
> lift on one wing than the other- should not take long to do it- you can use
> "U" shaped shims to test, (so you don't have to remove the bolts) then
> replace with washers when you get corrected.
> 
> 
> 
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Geoff Gerhardt
> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 6:19 PM
> To: Jean Prudhomme; Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 89, Issue 112
> 
> 
> 
> Jean,
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that you torqued the wing by only putting a washer in one
> bolt location?  Because its a roll issue, not a yaw issue, I'm assuming I
> should be looking for a incidence angle difference between them.  I thought
> the best way to do this would be to use a digital inclinometer and compare
> the angles of the trailing edges of the wings where there's a nice flat
> surface.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> 
> 
> 
> Geoff
> 
> On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 6:02 PM, Jean Prudhomme <prudhommejean at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> As builder of several Velocity it,s happen a couple of time and i had to put
> washer between spars at upper or lower bolt position to twist the wing and
> finally have the correction done
> 
> 
> 
> JEAN PRUDHOMME
> 
> Sales Associate
> 
> CANADA REALTY INC
> 
> POMPANO BEACH FLORIDA
> 
> Tel:754-366-1780
> 
> Toll free: 866-439-5011
> 
> http://jeanprudhomme.southfloridamls.com/
> 
> 
> 
> From: "reflector-request at tvbf.org" <reflector-request at tvbf.org>
> To: reflector at tvbf.org 
> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 4:36 PM
> Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 89, Issue 112
> 
> 
> Send Reflector mailing list submissions to
>    reflector at tvbf.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    reflector-request at tvbf.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>    reflector-owner at tvbf.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Reflector digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>  1. Re:  4th test flight - roll tendency persists (steve korney)
>  2.  Navy Man (Mark Magee)
>  3. Re:  4th test flight - roll tendency persists (Richard J. Gentil)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 20:15:03 +0000
> From: steve korney <s_korney at hotmail.com>
> To: Reflector Reflector <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
> Message-ID: <SNT127-W21BE981B00B795ABE7E4B3E7BC0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> 
> Geoff...
> 
> The ailerons are free floating... They should set themselves by aerodynamic
> forces of airflow...When you let go of the stick, the ailerons should take a
> position on their own and should be the same on both sides no matter what
> the aircraft is doing... 
> 
> 
> Steve 
> 
> From: lwcoen at hotmail.com
> To: geoff.gerhardt at gmail.com; reflector at tvbf.org
> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 12:39:04 -0500
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Geoff,
> 
>> From what you are describing it sounds like the ailerons are 
> being deflected aerodynamically.  You might want to look at the bottom 
> forward edge of the left aileron to see if it extends below the lower
> surface of 
> the wing when it?s held in the neutral position.  Since the ailerons are 
> hinged at the top, any increase of drag on the left compared to the right
> would 
> cause the effect you're seeing.
> 
> Larry Coen
> N136LC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Geoff Gerhardt 
> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 6:37 AM
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list 
> 
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency 
> persists
> 
> Alex/Steve, 
> 
> 
> That was my first thought, too, but in order to get it to fly level, 
> pressure on the stick is needed to keep the ailerons to neutral.  If I let 
> the stick go, the left aileron wants to come up, right goes down.  If it 
> were a wing shimming issue, I'd expect that the ailerons would need to be
> pushed 
> into a non-neutral position to counteract the effect of improperly aligned 
> wings. 
> 
> 
> Before flying the plane, my ailerons were positioned so that the trailing 
> edges were level with the wings.  After the third flight when I noticed 
> this left roll tendency, I adjusted them so they drooped ~1/8".  I think it 
> helped a little, but did not eliminate the left roll tendency.
> 
> 
> Geoff
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Alex Balic <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Possibly 
>  the wings need shimming
> 
> 
>  From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Geoff 
>  Gerhardt
> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 7:38 PM
> To: 
>  Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> 
> Subject: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency 
>  persists
> 
> 
>  Guys,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  I went on my fourth test flight this afternoon.  Still 
>  have butterflies before the flight and check things over like I have OCD
> (yes, 
>  the canard bolts are still there, for the fourth time...). 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Dealing with a few issues now that I've left the pattern 
>  and brought it up to speed.  I noticed on the third flight that it wants 
>  to roll to the left.  This is not a yaw (ball's in the center), but a 
>  definite roll that requires right pressure on the stick to fly level at
> 140kts 
>  (more pressure for higher speed).  Aileron trim isn't enough to take it 
>  out.  On that third flight, when I was flying level at 140ks by using 
>  right stick pressure, when I looked back I could see that the trailing
> edges 
>  of both ailerons were a little higher than the wing.  So, before the 
>  fourth flight, I drooped both down so they were ~1/8" below the wing (they
> 
>  were level before at rest), but this did not have much effect on the roll 
>  tendency (although the ailerons were level or drooping at speed).  It 
>  definitely seems to be an aileron issue.  When I'm flying level (using 
>  right stick pressure), the ailerons seem to be in an equal position. 
>  Letting the stick go, the right aileron comes up, left down and it 
>  rolls.  Any other ideas on things to check?
> 
> 
> 
>  Slow flight went very well, nice control down to 60kts. 
>  Easy 180 turn, then back the other way holding 
>  altitude.
> 
> 
> 
>  Geoff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email 
> address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> 
> Visit the 
> gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new 
> archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: 
> http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
> 
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> 
> Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 15:16:58 -0500
> From: Mark Magee <edjonesbrady at gmail.com>
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: REFLECTOR: Navy Man
> Message-ID: <5A62CBAF-9870-445E-9B44-FC70374835F4 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
> 
> You guys know a Navy Man was the first one to step foot on the moon? 
> No glass flight decks back then.
> An era has ended.
> 
> Mark B. Magee
> N34XL
> Sent from IPhone 4
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 16:35:58 -0400
> From: "Richard J. Gentil" <richard at naples-air-center.com>
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
> Message-ID:
>    <F3674ACC-E17A-4F9C-9A53-0B42BE2FB26B at naples-air-center.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Geoff,
> 
> I would look to the incident angle of your wings, the faster you go, the
> pronounced the turning tendency will be. 
> 
> Richard 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 4 Classic
> 
> On Aug 25, 2012, at 4:15 PM, steve korney <s_korney at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Geoff...
>> 
>> The ailerons are free floating... They should set themselves by
> aerodynamic forces of airflow...When you let go of the stick, the ailerons
> should take a position on their own and should be the same on both sides no
> matter what the aircraft is doing... 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Steve 
>> 
>> From: lwcoen at hotmail.com
>> To: geoff.gerhardt at gmail.com; reflector at tvbf.org
>> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 12:39:04 -0500
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
>> 
>> Geoff,
>> 
>> From what you are describing it sounds like the ailerons are being
> deflected aerodynamically.  You might want to look at the bottom forward
> edge of the left aileron to see if it extends below the lower surface of the
> wing when it?s held in the neutral position.  Since the ailerons are hinged
> at the top, any increase of drag on the left compared to the right would
> cause the effect you're seeing.
>> 
>> Larry Coen
>> N136LC
>> 
>> From: Geoff Gerhardt
>> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 6:37 AM
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
>> 
>> Alex/Steve,
>> 
>> That was my first thought, too, but in order to get it to fly level,
> pressure on the stick is needed to keep the ailerons to neutral.  If I let
> the stick go, the left aileron wants to come up, right goes down.  If it
> were a wing shimming issue, I'd expect that the ailerons would need to be
> pushed into a non-neutral position to counteract the effect of improperly
> aligned wings.  
>> 
>> Before flying the plane, my ailerons were positioned so that the trailing
> edges were level with the wings.  After the third flight when I noticed this
> left roll tendency, I adjusted them so they drooped ~1/8".  I think it
> helped a little, but did not eliminate the left roll tendency.
>> 
>> Geoff
>> 
>> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Alex Balic <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
> wrote:
>> Possibly the wings need shimming
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Geoff Gerhardt
>> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 7:38 PM
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>> 
>> 
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Guys,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I went on my fourth test flight this afternoon.  Still have butterflies
> before the flight and check things over like I have OCD (yes, the canard
> bolts are still there, for the fourth time...).  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Dealing with a few issues now that I've left the pattern and brought it up
> to speed.  I noticed on the third flight that it wants to roll to the left.
> This is not a yaw (ball's in the center), but a    definite roll that
> requires right pressure on the stick to fly level at 140kts (more pressure
> for higher speed).  Aileron trim isn't enough to take it out.  On that third
> flight, when I was flying level at 140ks by using right stick pressure, when
> I looked back I could see that the trailing edges of both ailerons were a
> little higher than the wing.  So, before the    fourth flight, I drooped
> both down so they were ~1/8" below the wing (they    were level before at
> rest), but this did not have much effect on the roll tendency (although the
> ailerons were level or drooping at speed).  It definitely seems to be an
> aileron issue.  When I'm flying level (using right stick pressure), the
> ailerons seem to be in an equal position.  Letting the stick go, the right
> aileron comes up, l!
> eft down and it rolls.  Any other ideas on things to check?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Slow flight went very well, nice control down to 60kts.  Easy 180 turn,
> then back the other way holding    altitude.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Geoff
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> 
>> Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html 
>> _______________________________________________ To change your email
> address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector Visit the
> gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose Check new
> archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail Check old archives:
> http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> 
>> Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
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> 
> _______________________________________________
> Visit the gallery!  tvbf:jamaicangoose
> 
> End of Reflector Digest, Vol 89, Issue 112
> ******************************************
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> 
> Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
> _______________________________________________
> Visit the gallery!  tvbf:jamaicangoose
> 
> End of Reflector Digest, Vol 89, Issue 117
> ******************************************
> 
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> 
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