REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 89, Issue 112
Geoff Gerhardt
geoff.gerhardt at gmail.com
Sat Aug 25 18:18:38 CDT 2012
Jean,
Are you saying that you torqued the wing by only putting a washer in one
bolt location? Because its a roll issue, not a yaw issue, I'm assuming I
should be looking for a incidence angle difference between them. I thought
the best way to do this would be to use a digital inclinometer and compare
the angles of the trailing edges of the wings where there's a nice flat
surface.
Thanks for your help.
Geoff
On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 6:02 PM, Jean Prudhomme <prudhommejean at yahoo.com>wrote:
> As builder of several Velocity it,s happen a couple of time and i had to
> put washer between spars at upper or lower bolt position to twist the wing
> and finally have the correction done
>
> JEAN PRUDHOMME
> Sales Associate
> *CANADA REALTY INC*
> POMPANO BEACH FLORIDA
> Tel:754-366-1780
> Toll free: 866-439-5011
> http://jeanprudhomme.southfloridamls.com/
>
> *From:* "reflector-request at tvbf.org" <reflector-request at tvbf.org>
> *To:* reflector at tvbf.org
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 25, 2012 4:36 PM
> *Subject:* Reflector Digest, Vol 89, Issue 112
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists (steve korney)
> 2. Navy Man (Mark Magee)
> 3. Re: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists (Richard J. Gentil)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 20:15:03 +0000
> From: steve korney <s_korney at hotmail.com>
> To: Reflector Reflector <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
> Message-ID: <SNT127-W21BE981B00B795ABE7E4B3E7BC0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
>
> Geoff...
>
> The ailerons are free floating... They should set themselves by
> aerodynamic forces of airflow...When you let go of the stick, the ailerons
> should take a position on their own and should be the same on both sides no
> matter what the aircraft is doing...
>
>
> Steve
>
> From: lwcoen at hotmail.com
> To: geoff.gerhardt at gmail.com; reflector at tvbf.org
> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 12:39:04 -0500
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Geoff,
>
> >From what you are describing it sounds like the ailerons are
> being deflected aerodynamically. You might want to look at the bottom
> forward edge of the left aileron to see if it extends below the lower
> surface of
> the wing when it?s held in the neutral position. Since the ailerons are
> hinged at the top, any increase of drag on the left compared to the right
> would
> cause the effect you're seeing.
>
> Larry Coen
> N136LC
>
>
>
>
> From: Geoff Gerhardt
> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 6:37 AM
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency
> persists
>
> Alex/Steve,
>
>
> That was my first thought, too, but in order to get it to fly level,
> pressure on the stick is needed to keep the ailerons to neutral. If I let
> the stick go, the left aileron wants to come up, right goes down. If it
> were a wing shimming issue, I'd expect that the ailerons would need to be
> pushed
> into a non-neutral position to counteract the effect of improperly aligned
> wings.
>
>
> Before flying the plane, my ailerons were positioned so that the trailing
> edges were level with the wings. After the third flight when I noticed
> this left roll tendency, I adjusted them so they drooped ~1/8". I think
> it
> helped a little, but did not eliminate the left roll tendency.
>
>
> Geoff
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Alex Balic <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Possibly
> the wings need shimming
>
>
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Geoff
> Gerhardt
> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 7:38 PM
> To:
> Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>
> Subject: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency
> persists
>
>
> Guys,
>
>
>
>
>
> I went on my fourth test flight this afternoon. Still
> have butterflies before the flight and check things over like I have OCD
> (yes,
> the canard bolts are still there, for the fourth time...).
>
>
>
>
> Dealing with a few issues now that I've left the pattern
> and brought it up to speed. I noticed on the third flight that it wants
> to roll to the left. This is not a yaw (ball's in the center), but a
> definite roll that requires right pressure on the stick to fly level at
> 140kts
> (more pressure for higher speed). Aileron trim isn't enough to take it
> out. On that third flight, when I was flying level at 140ks by using
> right stick pressure, when I looked back I could see that the trailing
> edges
> of both ailerons were a little higher than the wing. So, before the
> fourth flight, I drooped both down so they were ~1/8" below the wing
> (they
> were level before at rest), but this did not have much effect on the
> roll
> tendency (although the ailerons were level or drooping at speed). It
> definitely seems to be an aileron issue. When I'm flying level (using
> right stick pressure), the ailerons seem to be in an equal position.
> Letting the stick go, the right aileron comes up, left down and it
> rolls. Any other ideas on things to check?
>
>
>
> Slow flight went very well, nice control down to 60kts.
> Easy 180 turn, then back the other way holding
> altitude.
>
>
>
> Geoff
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 15:16:58 -0500
> From: Mark Magee <edjonesbrady at gmail.com>
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: REFLECTOR: Navy Man
> Message-ID: <5A62CBAF-9870-445E-9B44-FC70374835F4 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> You guys know a Navy Man was the first one to step foot on the moon?
> No glass flight decks back then.
> An era has ended.
>
> Mark B. Magee
> N34XL
> Sent from IPhone 4
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 16:35:58 -0400
> From: "Richard J. Gentil" <richard at naples-air-center.com>
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
> Message-ID:
> <F3674ACC-E17A-4F9C-9A53-0B42BE2FB26B at naples-air-center.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Geoff,
>
> I would look to the incident angle of your wings, the faster you go, the
> pronounced the turning tendency will be.
>
> Richard
>
> Sent from my iPhone 4 Classic
>
> On Aug 25, 2012, at 4:15 PM, steve korney <s_korney at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Geoff...
> >
> > The ailerons are free floating... They should set themselves by
> aerodynamic forces of airflow...When you let go of the stick, the ailerons
> should take a position on their own and should be the same on both sides no
> matter what the aircraft is doing...
> >
> >
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > From: lwcoen at hotmail.com
> > To: geoff.gerhardt at gmail.com; reflector at tvbf.org
> > Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 12:39:04 -0500
> > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
> >
> > Geoff,
> >
> > From what you are describing it sounds like the ailerons are being
> deflected aerodynamically. You might want to look at the bottom forward
> edge of the left aileron to see if it extends below the lower surface of
> the wing when it?s held in the neutral position. Since the ailerons are
> hinged at the top, any increase of drag on the left compared to the right
> would cause the effect you're seeing.
> >
> > Larry Coen
> > N136LC
> >
> > From: Geoff Gerhardt
> > Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 6:37 AM
> > To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
> >
> > Alex/Steve,
> >
> > That was my first thought, too, but in order to get it to fly level,
> pressure on the stick is needed to keep the ailerons to neutral. If I let
> the stick go, the left aileron wants to come up, right goes down. If it
> were a wing shimming issue, I'd expect that the ailerons would need to be
> pushed into a non-neutral position to counteract the effect of improperly
> aligned wings.
> >
> > Before flying the plane, my ailerons were positioned so that the
> trailing edges were level with the wings. After the third flight when I
> noticed this left roll tendency, I adjusted them so they drooped ~1/8". I
> think it helped a little, but did not eliminate the left roll tendency.
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Alex Balic <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
> wrote:
> > Possibly the wings need shimming
> >
> >
> >
> > From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Geoff Gerhardt
> > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 7:38 PM
> > To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> >
> >
> > Subject: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
> >
> >
> >
> > Guys,
> >
> >
> >
> > I went on my fourth test flight this afternoon. Still have butterflies
> before the flight and check things over like I have OCD (yes, the canard
> bolts are still there, for the fourth time...).
> >
> >
> >
> > Dealing with a few issues now that I've left the pattern and brought it
> up to speed. I noticed on the third flight that it wants to roll to the
> left. This is not a yaw (ball's in the center), but a definite roll
> that requires right pressure on the stick to fly level at 140kts (more
> pressure for higher speed). Aileron trim isn't enough to take it out. On
> that third flight, when I was flying level at 140ks by using right stick
> pressure, when I looked back I could see that the trailing edges of both
> ailerons were a little higher than the wing. So, before the fourth
> flight, I drooped both down so they were ~1/8" below the wing (they were
> level before at rest), but this did not have much effect on the roll
> tendency (although the ailerons were level or drooping at speed). It
> definitely seems to be an aileron issue. When I'm flying level (using
> right stick pressure), the ailerons seem to be in an equal position.
> Letting the stick go, the right aileron comes up, l!
> eft down and it rolls. Any other ideas on things to check?
> >
> >
> >
> > Slow flight went very well, nice control down to 60kts. Easy 180 turn,
> then back the other way holding altitude.
> >
> >
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> >
> > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
> > _______________________________________________ To change your email
> address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector Visit the
> gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose Check new
> archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail Check old archives:
> http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
> > _______________________________________________
> > To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> >
> > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
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>
> _______________________________________________
> Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose
>
> End of Reflector Digest, Vol 89, Issue 112
> ******************************************
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
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