REFLECTOR: Pilots report cockpit power failures

Jones Nick nick.jones at volvo.com
Thu Aug 23 08:12:58 CDT 2012


I have to inject here that Boeing is becoming very automated and not immune to dark cockpits. A very good friend of mine is a FO on a 757-200 and had his dark cockpit moment over the North Atlantic in the middle of the night. The Captains panel looked the same.

[cid:image003.jpg at 01CD810F.7C95B150]

I was in the local FBO the other day and noticed a flight student planning her cross country. We have a very easy cross county in SE Virginia because we have major roads going straight to the three points of the triangle CPK, EMV, RIC, CPK. I asked if she was going IFR (I follow roads)? Her answer took be back, she said all she was doing was putting in the coordinates in the G1000 equipped 172 and the airplane would take her there. Not only are aircraft becoming more automated, we are training the next generation to depend on it. IMHO, we have double trouble. We have airplanes that are built to think for us AND we are training the next generation to depend on it!

Best regards,
Nick

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein<http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/a/albert_einstein.html>

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Alex Balic
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 7:18 AM
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Pilots report cockpit power failures

Yea, we don't want to cause any further damage to the engine- that could be costly! Better to just shut it down to idle and force the aircraft to land immediately- we are genius programmers! Now what is our next project?
If they were out of range of the Hudson, and had to land in Manhattan, or downtown Newark,  it would have been a much different, and tragic story.......

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org<mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org> [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]<mailto:[mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]> On Behalf Of Mark Magee
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 3:52 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Pilots report cockpit power failures

Hi Richard,
I love the Reflector, I learned something new.
So correct me if I'm wrong, a software parameter prevented the flightcrew from getting what thrust the engines could produce despite the damage, for the program over-rode the throttle position asked for and selected FLIGHT IDLE to prevent further damage? This is the same fly-by-wire bad programming that sent that Airbus into the trees on a low pass at the Paris Air Show years ago.
That almost cooked Sully's goose.

Let me see if I can capture my thoughts on this;

'If it ain't Boeing, I ain't Going!'

I think that says it.

Mark
On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Richard J. Gentil <richard at naples-air-center.com<mailto:richard at naples-air-center.com>> wrote:
Mark,

The difference is with Airbus, if the A320 systems detect damage to an engine, the system takes the engine and puts it in idle not to further damage the engine. Boeing does not do this.

While the engines would develop anything close to full power with a B737 they would have been able to get enough thrust to make it to Teterboro.

If you listen to the CVR, Sully and Skiles spent most of their time to getting the engines out of idle before landing in the Hudson.

Richard

Sent from my iPhone 4 Classic

On Aug 22, 2012, at 4:29 PM, Mark Magee <edjonesbrady at gmail.com<mailto:edjonesbrady at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Richard,
I didn't know Rolls or GE had developed a Goose-Proof engine. Or rather a Flock-O-Geese-Proof engine.
The Frogs tried the 'Foie Gras' engine which was a proven failure.
Funny enough, with the Foie Gras you were supposed to be able to eat the goose after it passed through the engine. The engine was to literally cook your goose...
Those Frogs! Had it only worked!

Mark Magee
N34XL
On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Richard J. Gentil <richard at naples-air-center.com<mailto:richard at naples-air-center.com>> wrote:
Well if Sully had been flying a Boeing and not an Airbus, no one would know his name.

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