REFLECTOR: Pilots report cockpit power failures

Mark Magee edjonesbrady at gmail.com
Thu Aug 23 06:12:14 CDT 2012


Glenn, Kurt & All,
Answer me this: At which parameters does the bird switch itself into Murphy's Law?

Are there no Space Cowboy types left in the heavy-jet flying business? Men that push back on the powers that be on design flaw issues? The Two Heads in the cockpit, mechanical flying the aircraft philosophy aided air travel to become the safest mode ever known.

When will the govt. mandate fly by wire for homebuilts? 
We're not as smart as they are....

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. 

Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."

Benjamin Franklin


Mark B. Magee
N34XL
Sent from IPhone 4

On Aug 22, 2012, at 11:38 PM, Glenn Falkenberg <airmech2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Kert the airplane was in normal law all the way down to the water. There was no loss of electrical systems or adiru's.  The pilot flying could have held the joy stick full aft and the airplane would have maintained pitch attitude and airspeed just above stall.
> 
> On Aug 22, 2012 3:47 PM, <nmflyer1 at aol.com> wrote:
> "Alternate Law"... that about sums it up. 
> 
> Kurt 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard J. Gentil <richard at naples-air-center.com>
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:15 pm
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Pilots report cockpit power failures
> 
> Mark,
> 
> That is my understanding. 
> 
> I own one of the few schools allowed to teach JAA/EASA professional courses in the USA. 
> 
> Europe is all about theoretical knowledge and our students are in a Boeing or Bus at 250 hours, flying for a European airline where here in FAA land it is all about practical experience and do not expect to be flying a Boeing or Bus for a major airline till around 7,000 hours of flight experience. 
> 
> The design of aircraft use those philosophies. EU is all about automation and taking as much of the pilot out of the loop as possible. The US is all about the pilot. 
> 
> Richard 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 4 Classic
> 
> On Aug 22, 2012, at 4:52 PM, Mark Magee <edjonesbrady at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Richard,
>> I love the Reflector, I learned something new.
>> So correct me if I'm wrong, a software parameter prevented the flightcrew from getting what thrust the engines could produce despite the damage, for the program over-rode the throttle position asked for and selected FLIGHT IDLE to prevent further damage? This is the same fly-by-wire bad programming that sent that Airbus into the trees on a low pass at the Paris Air Show years ago.
>> That almost cooked Sully's goose.
>> 
>> Let me see if I can capture my thoughts on this;
>> 
>> 'If it ain't Boeing, I ain't Going!'
>> 
>> I think that says it.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Richard J. Gentil <richard at naples-air-center.com> wrote:
>> Mark,
>> 
>> The difference is with Airbus, if the A320 systems detect damage to an engine, the system takes the engine and puts it in idle not to further damage the engine. Boeing does not do this. 
>> 
>> While the engines would develop anything close to full power with a B737 they would have been able to get enough thrust to make it to Teterboro. 
>> 
>> If you listen to the CVR, Sully and Skiles spent most of their time to getting the engines out of idle before landing in the Hudson. 
>> 
>> Richard 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone 4 Classic
>> 
>> On Aug 22, 2012, at 4:29 PM, Mark Magee <edjonesbrady at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Richard,
>>> I didn't know Rolls or GE had developed a Goose-Proof engine. Or rather a Flock-O-Geese-Proof engine. 
>>> The Frogs tried the 'Foie Gras' engine which was a proven failure.
>>> Funny enough, with the Foie Gras you were supposed to be able to eat the goose after it passed through the engine. The engine was to literally cook your goose...
>>> Those Frogs! Had it only worked!
>>> 
>>> Mark Magee
>>> N34XL
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Richard J. Gentil <richard at naples-air-center.com> wrote:
>>> Well if Sully had been flying a Boeing and not an Airbus, no one would know his name. 
>>> 
>> 
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