REFLECTOR: Pilots report cockpit power failures

Wed Aug 22 19:27:16 CDT 2012

Hi Patrick,
IMHO it isn't really a debate here. More an exercise in fact-finding in the name of Flight Safety. 
Sometimes it may resemble debate I suppose...
Not my intent.
Cheers 

Mark B. Magee
N34XL
Sent from IPhone 4

On Aug 22, 2012, at 6:27 PM, Patrick Sieders <pjsieders at comcast.net> wrote:

> Guys,
> 
> No matter what airline sized airplane, in that particular point in the flight, with that catastrophic damage in both/all powerplants, would the outcome have been different. Sully and his copilot (His name is on the tip of my tongue) did not have enough time to consider all options other than where to 'park' the plane. 
> 
> Sully's experience in the airplane was valuable but even he had to fly the broken plane ina flight regime he had never been in. They had a lot of luck on their side..
> 
> So in essence, let's stop this back and forth , nobody will win the debate.. 
> 
> Patrick sieders
> Nashville TN 
> 
> Ps. Jeff Skiles.. Saw him in OSH..
> 
> From: nmflyer1 at aol.com
> Sent: August 22, 2012 17:43
> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Pilots report cockpit power failures
> 
> "Alternate Law"... that about sums it up. 
> 
> Kurt 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard J. Gentil <richard at naples-air-center.com>
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:15 pm
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Pilots report cockpit power failures
> 
> Mark,
> 
> That is my understanding. 
> 
> I own one of the few schools allowed to teach JAA/EASA professional courses in the USA. 
> 
> Europe is all about theoretical knowledge and our students are in a Boeing or Bus at 250 hours, flying for a European airline where here in FAA land it is all about practical experience and do not expect to be flying a Boeing or Bus for a major airline till around 7,000 hours of flight experience. 
> 
> The design of aircraft use those philosophies. EU is all about automation and taking as much of the pilot out of the loop as possible. The US is all about the pilot. 
> 
> Richard 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 4 Classic
> 
> On Aug 22, 2012, at 4:52 PM, Mark Magee <edjonesbrady at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Richard,
>> I love the Reflector, I learned something new.
>> So correct me if I'm wrong, a software parameter prevented the flightcrew from getting what thrust the engines could produce despite the damage, for the program over-rode the throttle position asked for and selected FLIGHT IDLE to prevent further damage? This is the same fly-by-wire bad programming that sent that Airbus into the trees on a low pass at the Paris Air Show years ago.
>> That almost cooked Sully's goose.
>> 
>> Let me see if I can capture my thoughts on this;
>> 
>> 'If it ain't Boeing, I ain't Going!'
>> 
>> I think that says it.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Richard J. Gentil <richard at naples-air-center.com> wrote:
>> Mark,
>> 
>> The difference is with Airbus, if the A320 systems detect damage to an engine, the system takes the engine and puts it in idle not to further damage the engine. Boeing does not do this. 
>> 
>> While the engines would develop anything close to full power with a B737 they would have been able to get enough thrust to make it to Teterboro. 
>> 
>> If you listen to the CVR, Sully and Skiles spent most of their time to getting the engines out of idle before landing in the Hudson. 
>> 
>> Richard 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone 4 Classic
>> 
>> On Aug 22, 2012, at 4:29 PM, Mark Magee <edjonesbrady at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Richard,
>>> I didn't know Rolls or GE had developed a Goose-Proof engine. Or rather a Flock-O-Geese-Proof engine.
>>> The Frogs tried the 'Foie Gras' engine which was a proven failure.
>>> Funny enough, with the Foie Gras you were supposed to be able to eat the goose after it passed through the engine. The engine was to literally cook your goose...
>>> Those Frogs! Had it only worked!
>>> 
>>> Mark Magee
>>> N34XL
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Richard J. Gentil <richard at naples-air-center.com> wrote:
>>> Well if Sully had been flying a Boeing and not an Airbus, no one would know his name. 
>>> 
>> 
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