REFLECTOR: Second flight

Mon Aug 20 12:24:25 CDT 2012

I've got a combination climb/cruise Cato three blade on an IO360C1C on a 173FGE.
I get 2250 static rpm and max out at about 2725 rpm with a TAS of about 165 kts full throttle.   At 2500 RPM I get about 145-150 KTS IAS.   That with main gear wheel pants only, VGs and trailing edge fences.   Mid weight take-offs with just me I can get 1500+ fpm.   At gross, it drops to about 500-700  fpm initial climb and then at 120 KIAS it will approach 800-900 fpm.   If I have a lot of weight in the front seat, the early climb rate is excitingly low-about 200 fpm until I get up to about 120 KIAS.      Wheel pant on the front gear made very little difference.       Min idle is around 750-800 rpm.  I also run a harmonic balancer between the engine and prop.   Not sure if it helps with the power, but it sure smoothes out the vibrations.    Former spam can drivers are always impressed with how smooth the engine appears to run.

Bill Stockman
Senior Associate
Dayton Aerospace, Inc.

937.426.4300  Office
937.369.4799  Cell
bill.stockman at daytonaero.com<mailto:bill.stockman at daytonaero.com>
www.daytonaero.com

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of steve korney
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 12:13 PM
To: Reflector Reflector
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Second flight

Ruben...

That's good information.... Thanks for that...

Steve
________________________________
From: ruben at vainneg.com<mailto:ruben at vainneg.com>
To: geoff.gerhardt at gmail.com<mailto:geoff.gerhardt at gmail.com>; reflector at tvbf.org<mailto:reflector at tvbf.org>
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 12:05:19 -0400
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Second flight
Geoff,

Mine is a SE-FG with and IO-360. The numbers you are giving here sound pretty much a similar experience I have. In the last couple of years I have been back and forth with Catto, I have used 3 different props. Cruise, and Climb props ranging my static from 1,900 to 2,200rpm, and take of distance from 1,500ft to 2,500ft., climb rate from 300-500ft./m  to 700-1000ft.m and cruising from 130KTAS to 150KTAS.

The conclusion is that there has to be a compromise, when you use a fix prop. You can get climb in sacrifice of speed or speed in sacrifice of climb, but the good news is that last year Catto came our with a new prop design. It looks much fatter than normal from the bottom than the top, and also the blade is kind of twisted more aggressively than a normal prop. With this design, the range of sacrifice between climb or cruise seems to have been reduced a lot.

I got one of these new designed props and it improve my take of distance and climb rate without scarify almost any cruising, maybe a couple of knots. My take off roll out can rage between 1,600 to 2,200 depending on temperature and weight. In a cold day by myself I can be in the air pretty quick, in the summer and with full weight, I always count a minim safe distance of 2,500 and if there are trees around, I aim for a minimum of 3,000ft runways. Climb again it depends a lot on temperature and weight. In the  winter at full weight and climb at 700ft/ with no problem, in the summer and full weight 300ft/m with DA of 4000' is the max I can get making planning for take off and important thing, but when I am up in the air at flat level I easily get the 145Ktas cruising speed at 2450rpm. I guess with a retract you would get at least 10 to 15 more than that.

Do you know what type of prop do you have? The old one, or the new design?

Ruben G. Creus
Ë +1.571.215.0025
* ruben at vainneg.com<mailto:ruben at vainneg.com>

________________________________
From: Geoff Gerhardt [mailto:geoff.gerhardt at gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 7:50 AM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: REFLECTOR: Second flight

Guys,

I spent Sunday morning fixing a few issues that were identified in the first flight, then took her out for a second flight this afternoon.  I think I'm going to have to send my prop back to Craig to have it re-pitched, but I'd like to hear your input.  There's a link below to a post on my website that shows the flight video as well as a CloudAhoy analysis (if you're not familiar with CloudAhoy, its a very cool app for recording a flight).  With just me on board and only ~20gal of fuel, I need ~2200' of runway to lift off (DA 2000'), then I have to stay low to build up some speed to start my climb.  Once I can get to 90-100kts, I can climb ok, but I feel a bit unsure about flying into any 3000' runways with only 800' of wiggle room, particularly if there's any trees past the runway.  My prop is currently 66x74.  Have a look at the video and CloudAloft and let me know how this compares to your experience with a fixed-pitch prop.

Here's a link to the post on my website that describes the second flight and videos.
http://thegerhardts.com/velocity/?p=513

Geoff

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