REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging (Reflexing)

Mark Magee edjonesbrady at gmail.com
Thu Apr 26 16:07:14 CDT 2012


Hi Ron,
Funny thing, we looked at jumping out of Long EZ's years ago. If the canard
is still flying and you go topside of the wing the prop gets you, if you
try to 'tuck an' roll' down under the wing -below decks- the the fixed gear
gets you, then maybe the prop also: 2 for 1. All in all a chute an a canard
pusher is iffy even -if- you could configure to a stop-prop condition,
retract guys have an advantage here. In a full stall jumping would be
interesting as the bird would be hard to get away from in a flat spin.
Theoretically you would keep getting sucked back into the low pressure
created by the bird pancaking down. I saw a Long EZ full stall at Wendover
one year, not pretty. Ronnenberg's old Long EZ lent to a friend. Not sure
the driver could have gotten away from it had he jumped, came straight down
in a flat spin, we estimated 1200 FPM.
There's always a chute for the whole bird tho'... Or maybe a low cost
($500USD?) ejection seat out of Transylvania or other former Soviet
satellite republic :)

Mark Magee
N34XL XLFG (No Chutes) 300HP 80HRS


On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Ron VelocityXLFG <velocityxl at fastmail.fm>wrote:

>   http://www.angelfire.com/on/dragonflyaircraft/reflexing.html
>
> I know there are people with way more understanding of this than me . I
> only entertain the idea
> because the web sit speaks of gaining 10- 60 knots in theory . Reflexing
> the ailerons
> would be a fairly easy  modification .  If you could gain this kind of
> speed with the same HP
> and set the system up so as to remove the reflex of the ailerons as the
> plane slows down why not
> give it a try.
>
> Yes deep stall is very possible and maybe the whole reason not to  do this
> but what if you could
> rig the system to remove the reflex in the system quickly and would also
> automatically removed
> the reflex  if the plane is under some predetermined speed. With a gain of
> 10 knots with the same
> HP sounds real enticing.
>
> No I am not trying this just entertaining the idea. I do not own a
> Parachute so I will only entertain the idea
> for now. Has any one looked into this and would like to share.
>
> Ron
>
>  *From:* Alex Balic <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
> *Sent:* Friday, December 02, 2011 9:27 PM
> *To:* 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list' <reflector at tvbf.org>
> *Subject:* REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging (was another Velocity in the air)
>
>
> Reflexing the ailerons will reduce drag- for a more detailed explanation
> of why this is see this:****
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/on/dragonflyaircraft/reflexing.html****
>
> it uses a Dragonfly canard aircraft to illustrate the aerodynamics, but it
> is the same with the Velocity.****
>
> Having the ailerons drooped is like flying with flaps deployed all of the
> time- ****
>
> ****
>
> *From:* reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Scott Baker
> *Sent:* Friday, December 02, 2011 6:34 PM
> *To:* Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: Another Velo in the air****
>
> ****
>
> Looks like contributions to this discussion are dealing with two issues ...
> ****
>
> the first deals with aileron balancing (trailing edge up is good; trailing
> edge down is bad) ...****
>
> the other deals with aileron rigging (trailing edge down offers better
> stable handling; trailing edge up offers lively roll response).****
>
> Scott B.****
>
>  ----- Original Message ----- ****
>
> *From:* Michael Watson <mikewatsspg at gmail.com> ****
>
> *To:* Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org> ****
>
> *Sent:* Friday, December 02, 2011 6:37 PM****
>
> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: Another Velo in the air****
>
> ****
>
> Mine has been down a 1/4 inch for over twelve years and I have had no
> problems with stability.
> When the test pilot came up from Velocity to do my first flight, the first
> thing he had me change
> was to move them from level with the wings to 1/4 inch down. He claimed
> that if they were up,
> the leading edge would protrude below the wing and cause yawing.
>
> Joel who owned a XL was having problems with unstable landings. I
> re-adjusted his ailerons
> to 1/4 inch down and that solved his problem.
>
> John, I think you are referring to initial balancing of the ailerons
> without the cables connected
>
> ****
>
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 4:59 PM, Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net> wrote:*
> ***
>
> Mine are rigged up also, per two different velocity factory a&p's ****
>
>
>
> aminetech at bluefrog.com wrote:****
>
> Mine are both 1/4" UP with no issues.  Rigging them both up was mentioned
> several years ago (see below).  Should I change them?****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> Subject:
>             Re: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE
>        Date:
>             Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:57:26 -0500
>       From:
>             "Scott Baker" <sbakr at comcast.net>
>    Reply-To:
>             reflector at tvbf.org
>         To:
>             <reflector at tvbf.org>
> References:
>             1 , 2****
>
>  ****
>
>
> I wanted to offer a clarification to an earlier post where I said ...****
>
> "How are the ailerons balanced?  Do they droop below the
> trailing edge of the wings and is their movement almost
> 'frictionless'?"****
>
> When properly balanced, the trailing edge of the ailerons should rise
> slightly above the trailing edge of the wings.  I was wanting to say
> that IF
> the ailerons on Tom's aircraft drooped below the trailing edge of the
> main
> wings, then this is a problem.  Besides inviting flutter, an aileron
> that is
> not balanced may also contribute to greater stick forces - which is
> what we
> are trying to trouble shoot from Tom's message.****
>
> Scott B.****
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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>
>
>
> --- john at velocityaircraft.com wrote:
>
> From: "John Abraham" <john at velocityaircraft.com>
> To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Another Velo in the air
> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 07:49:54 -0500****
>
> Dave,****
>
>  ****
>
> SE and XL’s should have ailerons drooped 1/8” down.  What your pilot was
> experiencing was the leading edge of the ailerons grabbing the air and
> pulling on the stick.  You can’t find the centering point very well with
> this.  The other thing to look at is if the leading edge has any sharp
> edges on it.  You want the leading edge to be rounded so it doesn’t grab
> the air. ****
>
> John ****
>
> *From:* reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Dennis Martin
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 30, 2011 10:54 PM
> *To:* Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: Another Velo in the air ****
>
> I hired John Abraham, Velocity Chief Pilot, to conduct my first flights.
> He and I spent a couple hours doing fine tuning on the aileron and elevator
> rigging. I think you should talk with John about your dutch roll and any
> fine tuning you might do to make sure the ailerons are rigged properly. I
> also had some nose wheel shimmy - we kept tightening the castle nut until
> it went away. We went well past the 15 lbs recommended - perhaps as much as
> 20-25 lbs. on my fixed gear.
>
> Good luck - I'm sure the factory team can help you figure it out.
>
> Dennis
>
> ****
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 8:42 PM, David Ullman <ullman at robustdecisions.com>
> wrote: ****
>
> N-444DX, an SEFG took to the air for its first flight today after 5+ years
> of work.  With Jorge Bujanda's flight,  that makes two planes this week.  I
> hired a test pilot, Robin Reid (30,000+ hours in over 300 types of
> aircraft,
> owner of a VarEZ for 5 years, and he flew a Velocity (Thanks Mel Rudin)
> just
> two weeks ago) and I am glad I did.  Most everything worked well which was
> a
> relief since I had been concerned about the engine that I built from a
> basket case, brakes heating, and nose wheel shimmy, but none of these were
> a
> problem.  But,I do seem to have a roll control problem that I will work out
> over the next couple of days (starting with a call to Velocity tomorrow
> AM).
>
>
> It seems that right after take-off Robin experienced a severe Dutch roll
> problem whenever he input any aileron control.  This seemed to increase
> with
> speed so he went around a big circle with rudder only and the ailerons
> locked neutral. He kept the speed under 120kts and landed at about 100kts.
> After taxiing it bask to the hangar I measured the following:
>
> If I push down and let go, both ailerons fare even with the wings.
> If I push up on one, it will stay up due to friction about .35" above the
> wing when the other is even with its wing.
> If I push up hard on one I can flex it to .550"
>
> The reason for this test is the thought that the air loads are pushing them
> both up, but this does not explain the Dutch roll (maybe?).
>
> I measured the incidence of both wings at five different locations with an
> angle measuring device and found that most values were within a degree of
> each other (within the tolerance of the device).
>
> I had a colleague put a resisting force on the ailerons and moved the
> control stick and all seemed normal.
>
> One thing I haven't checked is the gap between the wing and the aileron.
> This was on spec early on, but there has been paint and other finishing
> since then.  I will measure that tomorrow.
>
> Anyone else have a Dutch Roll problem?  I am calling Velocity tomorrow AM
> to
> get their input on this, but other ideas are more than welcome.
>
> David Ullman
> N-444DX Velocity
> EAA 292 President
> david at davidullman.com
> 541-754-3609
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> **
>
>
>
>
> --
> All the best,
> Dennis ****
>
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>
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> *
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mike W.
> 1997 Velocity Elite RG
> Franklin /IVO Electric CS
> Dual GRT EFIS HX Synthetic Vision****
>  ------------------------------
>
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>
>  ------------------------------
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