REFLECTOR: N929X in Sport Aviation
Rene Dugas
renedugas at gmail.com
Sat Apr 7 07:35:09 CDT 2012
BEAUTIFUL!
Rene'
Sent from Rene's iPad.
On Apr 4, 2012, at 1:39 PM, Reiff Lorenz <Reiff at lorenz.com> wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> Congrats! Very exciting.
>
> I've attached a copy of the article for anyone who has not yet seen it.
>
> Reiff Lorenz, Dayton, OH
> XL-RG, 30% complete
> Working on installing Corbeau seats
>
>
>
>
> <image001.png>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Mark Riley
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 8:48 PM
> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 85, Issue 4 N929X in Sport Aviation
>
> Our Velocity XL, N929X, finally made an appearance in this month's Sport Aviation magazine. Check it out at page 91 of the April issue. I dreamed about seeing this little article for years.
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Apr 2, 2012, at 10:50 PM, reflector-request at tvbf.org wrote:
>
> > Send Reflector mailing list submissions to
> > reflector at tvbf.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > reflector-request at tvbf.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > reflector-owner at tvbf.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Reflector digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: Dynon fuel pressure (Scott Derrick)
> > 2. Re: Reflector Digest, Vol 85, Issue 3 interior pictures
> > (Mark Riley)
> > 3. Re: Dynon fuel pressure (Brian Michalk)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 16:42:17 -0600
> > From: Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net>
> > To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
> > Message-ID: <4F7A2B49.9040903 at tnstaafl.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > I knew we had to be on the same track Brian! I'm not the electron
> > pusher you but I venture into that realm on occasion.
> >
> > It looks like the Dynon supplied sensor is a VDO 360-003, 0-80PSI,
> > 10-180 ohms and case ground
> >
> > I'm going to try a VDO 360-410, 0-80PSI, 10-180ohms, with a ground lug.
> > separate connections for ground and signal.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
> > From: Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com>
> > To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > Date: 04/02/2012 03:59 PM
> >
> >> Oh. Actually we love the same thing.
> >>
> >> Yes. I agree. For any sensor you give me, it needs a minimum of two
> >> wires. One for voltage reference (ground) the other for signal.
> >>
> >> Using the chassey for signal return is asking for trouble.
> >>
> >> On 4/2/2012 4:20 PM, Scott Derrick wrote:
> >>> I love grounded sensors and have used them in instrumentation for
> >>> years in avionics( Space3 Shuttle, B1-B, etc..) and commercial
> >>> systems. But I expect that what ever I connect the sensor to, will
> >>> provide me with the sensor ground along side the data wire(amp. volt,
> >>> freq., etc).
> >>>
> >>> I completely agree that using power ground for sensors is B.A.D.
> >>>
> >>> Now Dynon actually provides the ground connections on the EFIS and EMS
> >>> but then provides shitty cheap ungrounded(meaning the ground path is
> >>> the bus(power) ground. Then when you tell them your having problems
> >>> they say your ground path from the engine to the instrument is bad.
> >>>
> >>> I swapped out the crappy Dynon provided ungrounded oil temp sensor
> >>> which was pathetically inaccurate, with a GRT grounded(ground lug on
> >>> sensor run to EMS) and now I get a smooth acurte reading unaffected by
> >>> voltage or amperage changes on the power bus.
> >>>
> >>> VDO is the manufacturer of the fuel sensor sold by Dynon. They make a
> >>> grounded sensor in the same PSI range, I need to find out if the
> >>> resistance is the same across its pressure range of 80 PSI. Or install
> >>> a GRT grounded sensor, but that sensor is only rated to 30 PSI and my
> >>> system is capable of producing 32 PSI. I think that would be OK but???
> >>>
> >>> Scott
> >>>
> >>> -------- Original Message --------
> >>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
> >>> From: Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com>
> >>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> >>> Date: 04/02/2012 12:49 PM
> >>>
> >>>> Back in my instrumentation days, the classes taught that "grounding" is
> >>>> really a misnomer. There are two type of common voltage, referred to as
> >>>> "ground."
> >>>> The first is power grounds. This is for lights, motors, alternators and
> >>>> that sort of stuff. The other type is for instrumentation. The sensor
> >>>> either generates a small voltage potential, or somehow moderates a
> >>>> voltage or current.
> >>>>
> >>>> I hate grounded sensors. They mix the power return path with my
> >>>> sensitive acquisition system that I take great pains to keep noise free.
> >>>> When the mfg. provides these, they contaminate all sorts of things
> >>>> causing ground loops, induced voltage, and possibly injected RF noise.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't consider temperature probes where the body is grounded to the
> >>>> engine case for example to be a problem. In that case, the acquisition
> >>>> sensor checks for a voltage drop across the temperature probe, which is
> >>>> a high impedance sensor, and thus does not contaminate my sensitive
> >>>> acquisition voltages. It is still a current loop and that make it
> >>>> susceptible to noise because the current that went from the acquisition
> >>>> system to the probe, and into the engine case has to magically find its
> >>>> way back to the acquisition system somehow. The problem is that we don't
> >>>> know the return path, and that's the problem.
> >>>>
> >>>> Okay off my sandbox. Can you put a voltmeter on the sensor? Do you get
> >>>> the same results with everything turned off except the Dynon?
> >>>>
> >>>> On 4/2/2012 11:43 AM, Scott Derrick wrote:
> >>>>> I'm having an issue of a false high fuel pressure readingon my Dynon
> >>>>> EMS.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I came within minutes of removing the fuel pump to see if the high
> >>>>> pressure reg was dirty or the recirc outlet was clogged. A 5 hour job
> >>>>> just to uncover the pump?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I happened to be testing the installation of a replacement capacitive
> >>>>> fuel probe and noticed the fuel pressure was reading 10 psi and the
> >>>>> engine was off! I played around with re-grounding the sensor(Dynon has
> >>>>> a serious Achilles heal because they use ungrounded sensors) to see if
> >>>>> that would alleviate it but no joy.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Anybody else have this issue?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm thinking of switching to a GRT sensor as they are 1/2 to 1/4 the
> >>>>> price of Dynon's and most are grounded.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Scott
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> To change your email address, visit
> >>>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> >>>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> >>>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> >>>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> To change your email address, visit
> >>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> >>>>
> >>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> >>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> >>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> >>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> To change your email address, visit
> >> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> >>
> >> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> >> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> >> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> >> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
> >>
> >
> > --
> > No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted.
> > Aesop
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 22:31:04 -0400
> > From: Mark Riley <the_rileys1 at verizon.net>
> > To: reflector at tvbf.org
> > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 85, Issue 3 interior
> > pictures
> > Message-ID: <AD44B0E2-1339-416A-9E21-13E4260C8603 at verizon.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> > There are a bunch of interior pictures on my blog. Just check marksvelocity.blogspot.com
> >
> > Mark
> > On Apr 2, 2012, at 5:54 PM, reflector-request at tvbf.org wrote:
> >
> >> Send Reflector mailing list submissions to
> >> reflector at tvbf.org
> >>
> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >> reflector-request at tvbf.org
> >>
> >> You can reach the person managing the list at
> >> reflector-owner at tvbf.org
> >>
> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >> than "Re: Contents of Reflector digest..."
> >>
> >>
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >> 1. Re: finished interior pictures (nmflyer1 at aol.com)
> >> 2. Dynon fuel pressure (Scott Derrick)
> >> 3. Re: Dynon fuel pressure (Doug Kanczuzewski)
> >> 4. Re: Dynon fuel pressure (Brian Michalk)
> >> 5. Re: Dynon fuel pressure (Scott Derrick)
> >> 6. Re: Dynon fuel pressure (Brian Michalk)
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 1
> >> Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 13:23:40 -0400 (EDT)
> >> From: nmflyer1 at aol.com
> >> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> >> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: finished interior pictures
> >> Message-ID: <8CEDF0C7AC82C04-1FF4-54B7 at webmail-d159.sysops.aol.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >>
> >> Doug,
> >>
> >> I can send you some this evening when I get home... If you still need them.
> >>
> >> Kurt
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Douglas Holub <douglas.holub at gmail.com>
> >> To: reflector <reflector at tvbf.org>
> >> Sent: Mon, Apr 2, 2012 9:14 am
> >> Subject: REFLECTOR: finished interior pictures
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm looking for some pictures of finished interiors to show my upholstery guys. I found a few on Velocity's website in the "used planes for sale" area. Can somebody point me to some more?
> >>
> >> Douglas Holub
> >> Flying since '09, finally putting the interior in
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> o change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> >> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> >> ser:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> >> heck new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> >> heck old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/private/reflector/attachments/20120402/e1be48b4/attachment-0001.htm>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 2
> >> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 10:43:23 -0600
> >> From: Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net>
> >> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> >> Subject: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
> >> Message-ID: <4F79D72B.3030705 at tnstaafl.net>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >>
> >> I'm having an issue of a false high fuel pressure readingon my Dynon EMS.
> >>
> >> I came within minutes of removing the fuel pump to see if the high
> >> pressure reg was dirty or the recirc outlet was clogged. A 5 hour job
> >> just to uncover the pump?
> >>
> >> I happened to be testing the installation of a replacement capacitive
> >> fuel probe and noticed the fuel pressure was reading 10 psi and the
> >> engine was off! I played around with re-grounding the sensor(Dynon has a
> >> serious Achilles heal because they use ungrounded sensors) to see if
> >> that would alleviate it but no joy.
> >>
> >> Anybody else have this issue?
> >>
> >> I'm thinking of switching to a GRT sensor as they are 1/2 to 1/4 the
> >> price of Dynon's and most are grounded.
> >>
> >> Scott
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 3
> >> Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 17:46:39 +0000
> >> From: Doug Kanczuzewski <doug at customstudio.com>
> >> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> >> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
> >> Message-ID:
> >> <1965FCEAF15F5244BE6BA2516824A98A05EFE8F2 at fnf-ex-1.saxton.net>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> NO put I have been having the problem with mine reading 20psi consistently too low.
> >>
> >> Doug
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Scott Derrick
> >> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 9:43 AM
> >> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> >> Subject: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
> >>
> >> I'm having an issue of a false high fuel pressure readingon my Dynon EMS.
> >>
> >> I came within minutes of removing the fuel pump to see if the high
> >> pressure reg was dirty or the recirc outlet was clogged. A 5 hour job
> >> just to uncover the pump?
> >>
> >> I happened to be testing the installation of a replacement capacitive
> >> fuel probe and noticed the fuel pressure was reading 10 psi and the
> >> engine was off! I played around with re-grounding the sensor(Dynon has a
> >> serious Achilles heal because they use ungrounded sensors) to see if
> >> that would alleviate it but no joy.
> >>
> >> Anybody else have this issue?
> >>
> >> I'm thinking of switching to a GRT sensor as they are 1/2 to 1/4 the
> >> price of Dynon's and most are grounded.
> >>
> >> Scott
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> >>
> >> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> >> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> >> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> >> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 4
> >> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 13:49:21 -0500
> >> From: Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com>
> >> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> >> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
> >> Message-ID: <4F79F4B1.4040009 at awpi.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >>
> >> Back in my instrumentation days, the classes taught that "grounding" is
> >> really a misnomer. There are two type of common voltage, referred to as
> >> "ground."
> >> The first is power grounds. This is for lights, motors, alternators and
> >> that sort of stuff. The other type is for instrumentation. The sensor
> >> either generates a small voltage potential, or somehow moderates a
> >> voltage or current.
> >>
> >> I hate grounded sensors. They mix the power return path with my
> >> sensitive acquisition system that I take great pains to keep noise
> >> free. When the mfg. provides these, they contaminate all sorts of
> >> things causing ground loops, induced voltage, and possibly injected RF
> >> noise.
> >>
> >> I don't consider temperature probes where the body is grounded to the
> >> engine case for example to be a problem. In that case, the acquisition
> >> sensor checks for a voltage drop across the temperature probe, which is
> >> a high impedance sensor, and thus does not contaminate my sensitive
> >> acquisition voltages. It is still a current loop and that make it
> >> susceptible to noise because the current that went from the acquisition
> >> system to the probe, and into the engine case has to magically find its
> >> way back to the acquisition system somehow. The problem is that we
> >> don't know the return path, and that's the problem.
> >>
> >> Okay off my sandbox. Can you put a voltmeter on the sensor? Do you get
> >> the same results with everything turned off except the Dynon?
> >>
> >> On 4/2/2012 11:43 AM, Scott Derrick wrote:
> >>> I'm having an issue of a false high fuel pressure readingon my Dynon EMS.
> >>>
> >>> I came within minutes of removing the fuel pump to see if the high
> >>> pressure reg was dirty or the recirc outlet was clogged. A 5 hour job
> >>> just to uncover the pump?
> >>>
> >>> I happened to be testing the installation of a replacement capacitive
> >>> fuel probe and noticed the fuel pressure was reading 10 psi and the
> >>> engine was off! I played around with re-grounding the sensor(Dynon has
> >>> a serious Achilles heal because they use ungrounded sensors) to see if
> >>> that would alleviate it but no joy.
> >>>
> >>> Anybody else have this issue?
> >>>
> >>> I'm thinking of switching to a GRT sensor as they are 1/2 to 1/4 the
> >>> price of Dynon's and most are grounded.
> >>>
> >>> Scott
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> To change your email address, visit
> >>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> >>>
> >>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> >>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> >>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> >>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 5
> >> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 15:20:32 -0600
> >> From: Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net>
> >> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> >> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
> >> Message-ID: <4F7A1820.1030200 at tnstaafl.net>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >>
> >> I love grounded sensors and have used them in instrumentation for years
> >> in avionics( Space3 Shuttle, B1-B, etc..) and commercial systems. But I
> >> expect that what ever I connect the sensor to, will provide me with the
> >> sensor ground along side the data wire(amp. volt, freq., etc).
> >>
> >> I completely agree that using power ground for sensors is B.A.D.
> >>
> >> Now Dynon actually provides the ground connections on the EFIS and EMS
> >> but then provides shitty cheap ungrounded(meaning the ground path is the
> >> bus(power) ground. Then when you tell them your having problems they say
> >> your ground path from the engine to the instrument is bad.
> >>
> >> I swapped out the crappy Dynon provided ungrounded oil temp sensor which
> >> was pathetically inaccurate, with a GRT grounded(ground lug on sensor
> >> run to EMS) and now I get a smooth acurte reading unaffected by voltage
> >> or amperage changes on the power bus.
> >>
> >> VDO is the manufacturer of the fuel sensor sold by Dynon. They make a
> >> grounded sensor in the same PSI range, I need to find out if the
> >> resistance is the same across its pressure range of 80 PSI. Or install
> >> a GRT grounded sensor, but that sensor is only rated to 30 PSI and my
> >> system is capable of producing 32 PSI. I think that would be OK but???
> >>
> >> Scott
> >>
> >> -------- Original Message --------
> >> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
> >> From: Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com>
> >> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> >> Date: 04/02/2012 12:49 PM
> >>
> >>> Back in my instrumentation days, the classes taught that "grounding" is
> >>> really a misnomer. There are two type of common voltage, referred to as
> >>> "ground."
> >>> The first is power grounds. This is for lights, motors, alternators and
> >>> that sort of stuff. The other type is for instrumentation. The sensor
> >>> either generates a small voltage potential, or somehow moderates a
> >>> voltage or current.
> >>>
> >>> I hate grounded sensors. They mix the power return path with my
> >>> sensitive acquisition system that I take great pains to keep noise free.
> >>> When the mfg. provides these, they contaminate all sorts of things
> >>> causing ground loops, induced voltage, and possibly injected RF noise.
> >>>
> >>> I don't consider temperature probes where the body is grounded to the
> >>> engine case for example to be a problem. In that case, the acquisition
> >>> sensor checks for a voltage drop across the temperature probe, which is
> >>> a high impedance sensor, and thus does not contaminate my sensitive
> >>> acquisition voltages. It is still a current loop and that make it
> >>> susceptible to noise because the current that went from the acquisition
> >>> system to the probe, and into the engine case has to magically find its
> >>> way back to the acquisition system somehow. The problem is that we don't
> >>> know the return path, and that's the problem.
> >>>
> >>> Okay off my sandbox. Can you put a voltmeter on the sensor? Do you get
> >>> the same results with everything turned off except the Dynon?
> >>>
> >>> On 4/2/2012 11:43 AM, Scott Derrick wrote:
> >>>> I'm having an issue of a false high fuel pressure readingon my Dynon EMS.
> >>>>
> >>>> I came within minutes of removing the fuel pump to see if the high
> >>>> pressure reg was dirty or the recirc outlet was clogged. A 5 hour job
> >>>> just to uncover the pump?
> >>>>
> >>>> I happened to be testing the installation of a replacement capacitive
> >>>> fuel probe and noticed the fuel pressure was reading 10 psi and the
> >>>> engine was off! I played around with re-grounding the sensor(Dynon has
> >>>> a serious Achilles heal because they use ungrounded sensors) to see if
> >>>> that would alleviate it but no joy.
> >>>>
> >>>> Anybody else have this issue?
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm thinking of switching to a GRT sensor as they are 1/2 to 1/4 the
> >>>> price of Dynon's and most are grounded.
> >>>>
> >>>> Scott
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> To change your email address, visit
> >>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> >>>>
> >>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> >>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> >>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> >>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> To change your email address, visit
> >>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> >>>
> >>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> >>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> >>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> >>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so
> >> long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened
> >> for us.
> >> Helen Keller
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 6
> >> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 16:59:38 -0500
> >> From: Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com>
> >> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> >> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
> >> Message-ID: <4F7A214A.5010200 at awpi.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >>
> >> Oh. Actually we love the same thing.
> >>
> >> Yes. I agree. For any sensor you give me, it needs a minimum of two
> >> wires. One for voltage reference (ground) the other for signal.
> >>
> >> Using the chassey for signal return is asking for trouble.
> >>
> >> On 4/2/2012 4:20 PM, Scott Derrick wrote:
> >>> I love grounded sensors and have used them in instrumentation for
> >>> years in avionics( Space3 Shuttle, B1-B, etc..) and commercial
> >>> systems. But I expect that what ever I connect the sensor to, will
> >>> provide me with the sensor ground along side the data wire(amp. volt,
> >>> freq., etc).
> >>>
> >>> I completely agree that using power ground for sensors is B.A.D.
> >>>
> >>> Now Dynon actually provides the ground connections on the EFIS and EMS
> >>> but then provides shitty cheap ungrounded(meaning the ground path is
> >>> the bus(power) ground. Then when you tell them your having problems
> >>> they say your ground path from the engine to the instrument is bad.
> >>>
> >>> I swapped out the crappy Dynon provided ungrounded oil temp sensor
> >>> which was pathetically inaccurate, with a GRT grounded(ground lug on
> >>> sensor run to EMS) and now I get a smooth acurte reading unaffected by
> >>> voltage or amperage changes on the power bus.
> >>>
> >>> VDO is the manufacturer of the fuel sensor sold by Dynon. They make a
> >>> grounded sensor in the same PSI range, I need to find out if the
> >>> resistance is the same across its pressure range of 80 PSI. Or
> >>> install a GRT grounded sensor, but that sensor is only rated to 30 PSI
> >>> and my system is capable of producing 32 PSI. I think that would be
> >>> OK but???
> >>>
> >>> Scott
> >>>
> >>> -------- Original Message --------
> >>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
> >>> From: Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com>
> >>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> >>> Date: 04/02/2012 12:49 PM
> >>>
> >>>> Back in my instrumentation days, the classes taught that "grounding" is
> >>>> really a misnomer. There are two type of common voltage, referred to as
> >>>> "ground."
> >>>> The first is power grounds. This is for lights, motors, alternators and
> >>>> that sort of stuff. The other type is for instrumentation. The sensor
> >>>> either generates a small voltage potential, or somehow moderates a
> >>>> voltage or current.
> >>>>
> >>>> I hate grounded sensors. They mix the power return path with my
> >>>> sensitive acquisition system that I take great pains to keep noise free.
> >>>> When the mfg. provides these, they contaminate all sorts of things
> >>>> causing ground loops, induced voltage, and possibly injected RF noise.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't consider temperature probes where the body is grounded to the
> >>>> engine case for example to be a problem. In that case, the acquisition
> >>>> sensor checks for a voltage drop across the temperature probe, which is
> >>>> a high impedance sensor, and thus does not contaminate my sensitive
> >>>> acquisition voltages. It is still a current loop and that make it
> >>>> susceptible to noise because the current that went from the acquisition
> >>>> system to the probe, and into the engine case has to magically find its
> >>>> way back to the acquisition system somehow. The problem is that we don't
> >>>> know the return path, and that's the problem.
> >>>>
> >>>> Okay off my sandbox. Can you put a voltmeter on the sensor? Do you get
> >>>> the same results with everything turned off except the Dynon?
> >>>>
> >>>> On 4/2/2012 11:43 AM, Scott Derrick wrote:
> >>>>> I'm having an issue of a false high fuel pressure readingon my Dynon
> >>>>> EMS.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I came within minutes of removing the fuel pump to see if the high
> >>>>> pressure reg was dirty or the recirc outlet was clogged. A 5 hour job
> >>>>> just to uncover the pump?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I happened to be testing the installation of a replacement capacitive
> >>>>> fuel probe and noticed the fuel pressure was reading 10 psi and the
> >>>>> engine was off! I played around with re-grounding the sensor(Dynon has
> >>>>> a serious Achilles heal because they use ungrounded sensors) to see if
> >>>>> that would alleviate it but no joy.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Anybody else have this issue?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm thinking of switching to a GRT sensor as they are 1/2 to 1/4 the
> >>>>> price of Dynon's and most are grounded.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Scott
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose
> >>
> >> End of Reflector Digest, Vol 85, Issue 3
> >> ****************************************
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:52:36 -0500
> > From: Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com>
> > To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
> > Message-ID: <4F7A65F4.4080503 at awpi.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > Yes, VDO makes I thought all of their sensors in ungrounded and grounded
> > versions. I have a few of them on the plane for oil pressure and fuel
> > pressure, which for me is 45PSI.
> >
> > None of mine are hard mounted to the engine. I've heard that the
> > vibration can cause them to fail at the neck. The orifice is a few
> > thousandths in diameter, really small, so if it does break off it won't
> > flow very much.
> >
> > On 04/02/2012 05:42 PM, Scott Derrick wrote:
> >> I knew we had to be on the same track Brian! I'm not the electron
> >> pusher you but I venture into that realm on occasion.
> >>
> >> It looks like the Dynon supplied sensor is a VDO 360-003, 0-80PSI,
> >> 10-180 ohms and case ground
> >>
> >> I'm going to try a VDO 360-410, 0-80PSI, 10-180ohms, with a ground
> >> lug. separate connections for ground and signal.
> >>
> >> Scott
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose
> >
> > End of Reflector Digest, Vol 85, Issue 4
> > ****************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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> _______________________________________________
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>
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