REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 85, Issue 4 N929X in Sport Aviation

Mark Riley the_rileys1 at verizon.net
Tue Apr 3 19:48:15 CDT 2012


Our Velocity XL, N929X, finally made an appearance in this month's Sport Aviation magazine. Check it out at page 91 of the April issue. I dreamed about seeing this little article for years.

Mark


On Apr 2, 2012, at 10:50 PM, reflector-request at tvbf.org wrote:

> Send Reflector mailing list submissions to
> 	reflector at tvbf.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	reflector-request at tvbf.org
> 
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> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Reflector digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re:  Dynon fuel pressure (Scott Derrick)
>   2. Re:  Reflector Digest, Vol 85, Issue 3 interior pictures
>      (Mark Riley)
>   3. Re:  Dynon fuel pressure (Brian Michalk)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 16:42:17 -0600
> From: Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net>
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
> Message-ID: <4F7A2B49.9040903 at tnstaafl.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> I knew we had to be on the same track Brian!  I'm not the electron 
> pusher you but I venture into that realm on occasion.
> 
> It looks like the Dynon supplied sensor is a VDO 360-003, 0-80PSI, 
> 10-180 ohms and case ground
> 
> I'm going to try a VDO 360-410, 0-80PSI, 10-180ohms, with a ground lug. 
> separate connections for ground and signal.
> 
> Scott
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
> From: Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com>
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Date: 04/02/2012 03:59 PM
> 
>> Oh. Actually we love the same thing.
>> 
>> Yes. I agree. For any sensor you give me, it needs a minimum of two
>> wires. One for voltage reference (ground) the other for signal.
>> 
>> Using the chassey for signal return is asking for trouble.
>> 
>> On 4/2/2012 4:20 PM, Scott Derrick wrote:
>>> I love grounded sensors and have used them in instrumentation for
>>> years in avionics( Space3 Shuttle, B1-B, etc..) and commercial
>>> systems. But I expect that what ever I connect the sensor to, will
>>> provide me with the sensor ground along side the data wire(amp. volt,
>>> freq., etc).
>>> 
>>> I completely agree that using power ground for sensors is B.A.D.
>>> 
>>> Now Dynon actually provides the ground connections on the EFIS and EMS
>>> but then provides shitty cheap ungrounded(meaning the ground path is
>>> the bus(power) ground. Then when you tell them your having problems
>>> they say your ground path from the engine to the instrument is bad.
>>> 
>>> I swapped out the crappy Dynon provided ungrounded oil temp sensor
>>> which was pathetically inaccurate, with a GRT grounded(ground lug on
>>> sensor run to EMS) and now I get a smooth acurte reading unaffected by
>>> voltage or amperage changes on the power bus.
>>> 
>>> VDO is the manufacturer of the fuel sensor sold by Dynon. They make a
>>> grounded sensor in the same PSI range, I need to find out if the
>>> resistance is the same across its pressure range of 80 PSI. Or install
>>> a GRT grounded sensor, but that sensor is only rated to 30 PSI and my
>>> system is capable of producing 32 PSI. I think that would be OK but???
>>> 
>>> Scott
>>> 
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
>>> From: Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com>
>>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>>> Date: 04/02/2012 12:49 PM
>>> 
>>>> Back in my instrumentation days, the classes taught that "grounding" is
>>>> really a misnomer. There are two type of common voltage, referred to as
>>>> "ground."
>>>> The first is power grounds. This is for lights, motors, alternators and
>>>> that sort of stuff. The other type is for instrumentation. The sensor
>>>> either generates a small voltage potential, or somehow moderates a
>>>> voltage or current.
>>>> 
>>>> I hate grounded sensors. They mix the power return path with my
>>>> sensitive acquisition system that I take great pains to keep noise free.
>>>> When the mfg. provides these, they contaminate all sorts of things
>>>> causing ground loops, induced voltage, and possibly injected RF noise.
>>>> 
>>>> I don't consider temperature probes where the body is grounded to the
>>>> engine case for example to be a problem. In that case, the acquisition
>>>> sensor checks for a voltage drop across the temperature probe, which is
>>>> a high impedance sensor, and thus does not contaminate my sensitive
>>>> acquisition voltages. It is still a current loop and that make it
>>>> susceptible to noise because the current that went from the acquisition
>>>> system to the probe, and into the engine case has to magically find its
>>>> way back to the acquisition system somehow. The problem is that we don't
>>>> know the return path, and that's the problem.
>>>> 
>>>> Okay off my sandbox. Can you put a voltmeter on the sensor? Do you get
>>>> the same results with everything turned off except the Dynon?
>>>> 
>>>> On 4/2/2012 11:43 AM, Scott Derrick wrote:
>>>>> I'm having an issue of a false high fuel pressure readingon my Dynon
>>>>> EMS.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I came within minutes of removing the fuel pump to see if the high
>>>>> pressure reg was dirty or the recirc outlet was clogged. A 5 hour job
>>>>> just to uncover the pump?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I happened to be testing the installation of a replacement capacitive
>>>>> fuel probe and noticed the fuel pressure was reading 10 psi and the
>>>>> engine was off! I played around with re-grounding the sensor(Dynon has
>>>>> a serious Achilles heal because they use ungrounded sensors) to see if
>>>>> that would alleviate it but no joy.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Anybody else have this issue?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm thinking of switching to a GRT sensor as they are 1/2 to 1/4 the
>>>>> price of Dynon's and most are grounded.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Scott
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> To change your email address, visit
>>>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>>> 
>>>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> To change your email address, visit
>>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>> 
>>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> 
>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>> 
> 
> -- 
> No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted.
> Aesop
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 22:31:04 -0400
> From: Mark Riley <the_rileys1 at verizon.net>
> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 85, Issue 3 interior
> 	pictures
> Message-ID: <AD44B0E2-1339-416A-9E21-13E4260C8603 at verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> There are a bunch of interior pictures on my blog. Just check marksvelocity.blogspot.com
> 
> Mark
> On Apr 2, 2012, at 5:54 PM, reflector-request at tvbf.org wrote:
> 
>> Send Reflector mailing list submissions to
>> 	reflector at tvbf.org
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> 	http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> 	reflector-request at tvbf.org
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> 	reflector-owner at tvbf.org
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Reflector digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>  1. Re:  finished interior pictures (nmflyer1 at aol.com)
>>  2.  Dynon fuel pressure (Scott Derrick)
>>  3. Re:  Dynon fuel pressure (Doug Kanczuzewski)
>>  4. Re:  Dynon fuel pressure (Brian Michalk)
>>  5. Re:  Dynon fuel pressure (Scott Derrick)
>>  6. Re:  Dynon fuel pressure (Brian Michalk)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 13:23:40 -0400 (EDT)
>> From: nmflyer1 at aol.com
>> To: reflector at tvbf.org
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: finished interior pictures
>> Message-ID: <8CEDF0C7AC82C04-1FF4-54B7 at webmail-d159.sysops.aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> 
>> Doug, 
>> 
>> I can send you some this evening when I get home... If you still need them. 
>> 
>> Kurt 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Douglas Holub <douglas.holub at gmail.com>
>> To: reflector <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Sent: Mon, Apr 2, 2012 9:14 am
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: finished interior pictures
>> 
>> 
>> I'm looking for some pictures of finished interiors to show my upholstery guys. I found a few on Velocity's website in the "used planes for sale" area. Can somebody point me to some more? 
>> 
>> Douglas Holub
>> Flying since '09, finally putting the interior in
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> o change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> ser:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> heck new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> heck old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>> 
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/private/reflector/attachments/20120402/e1be48b4/attachment-0001.htm>
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 10:43:23 -0600
>> From: Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net>
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
>> Message-ID: <4F79D72B.3030705 at tnstaafl.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>> 
>> I'm having an issue of a false high fuel pressure readingon my Dynon EMS.
>> 
>> I came within minutes of removing the fuel pump to see if the high 
>> pressure reg was dirty or the recirc outlet was clogged. A 5 hour job 
>> just to uncover the pump?
>> 
>> I happened to be testing the installation of a replacement capacitive 
>> fuel probe and noticed the fuel pressure was reading 10 psi and the 
>> engine was off! I played around with re-grounding the sensor(Dynon has a 
>> serious Achilles heal because they use ungrounded sensors) to see if 
>> that would alleviate it but no joy.
>> 
>> Anybody else have this issue?
>> 
>> I'm thinking of switching to a GRT sensor as they are 1/2 to 1/4 the 
>> price of Dynon's and most are grounded.
>> 
>> Scott
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 17:46:39 +0000
>> From: Doug Kanczuzewski <doug at customstudio.com>
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<1965FCEAF15F5244BE6BA2516824A98A05EFE8F2 at fnf-ex-1.saxton.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> NO put I have been having the problem with mine reading 20psi consistently too low.
>> 
>> Doug
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Scott Derrick
>> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 9:43 AM
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
>> 
>> I'm having an issue of a false high fuel pressure readingon my Dynon EMS.
>> 
>> I came within minutes of removing the fuel pump to see if the high 
>> pressure reg was dirty or the recirc outlet was clogged. A 5 hour job 
>> just to uncover the pump?
>> 
>> I happened to be testing the installation of a replacement capacitive 
>> fuel probe and noticed the fuel pressure was reading 10 psi and the 
>> engine was off! I played around with re-grounding the sensor(Dynon has a 
>> serious Achilles heal because they use ungrounded sensors) to see if 
>> that would alleviate it but no joy.
>> 
>> Anybody else have this issue?
>> 
>> I'm thinking of switching to a GRT sensor as they are 1/2 to 1/4 the 
>> price of Dynon's and most are grounded.
>> 
>> Scott
>> _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> 
>> Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 13:49:21 -0500
>> From: Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com>
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
>> Message-ID: <4F79F4B1.4040009 at awpi.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>> 
>> Back in my instrumentation days, the classes taught that "grounding" is 
>> really a misnomer.  There are two type of common voltage, referred to as 
>> "ground."
>> The first is power grounds.  This is for lights, motors, alternators and 
>> that sort of stuff.  The other type is for instrumentation.  The sensor 
>> either generates a small voltage potential, or somehow moderates a 
>> voltage or current.
>> 
>> I hate grounded sensors.  They mix the power return path with my 
>> sensitive acquisition system that I take great pains to keep noise 
>> free.  When the mfg. provides these, they contaminate all sorts of 
>> things causing ground loops, induced voltage, and possibly injected RF 
>> noise.
>> 
>> I don't consider temperature probes where the body is grounded to the 
>> engine case for example to be a problem.  In that case, the acquisition 
>> sensor checks for a voltage drop across the temperature probe, which is 
>> a high impedance sensor, and thus does not contaminate my sensitive 
>> acquisition voltages.  It is still a current loop and that make it 
>> susceptible to noise because the current that went from the acquisition 
>> system to the probe, and into the engine case has to magically find its 
>> way back to the acquisition system somehow.  The problem is that we 
>> don't know the return path, and that's the problem.
>> 
>> Okay off my sandbox.  Can you put a voltmeter on the sensor?  Do you get 
>> the same results with everything turned off except the Dynon?
>> 
>> On 4/2/2012 11:43 AM, Scott Derrick wrote:
>>> I'm having an issue of a false high fuel pressure readingon my Dynon EMS.
>>> 
>>> I came within minutes of removing the fuel pump to see if the high 
>>> pressure reg was dirty or the recirc outlet was clogged. A 5 hour job 
>>> just to uncover the pump?
>>> 
>>> I happened to be testing the installation of a replacement capacitive 
>>> fuel probe and noticed the fuel pressure was reading 10 psi and the 
>>> engine was off! I played around with re-grounding the sensor(Dynon has 
>>> a serious Achilles heal because they use ungrounded sensors) to see if 
>>> that would alleviate it but no joy.
>>> 
>>> Anybody else have this issue?
>>> 
>>> I'm thinking of switching to a GRT sensor as they are 1/2 to 1/4 the 
>>> price of Dynon's and most are grounded.
>>> 
>>> Scott
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> To change your email address, visit 
>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>> 
>>> Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 15:20:32 -0600
>> From: Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net>
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
>> Message-ID: <4F7A1820.1030200 at tnstaafl.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>> 
>> I love grounded sensors and have used them in instrumentation for years 
>> in avionics( Space3 Shuttle, B1-B, etc..) and commercial systems.  But I 
>> expect that what ever I connect the sensor to, will provide me with the 
>> sensor ground along side the data wire(amp. volt, freq., etc).
>> 
>> I completely agree that using power ground for sensors is B.A.D.
>> 
>> Now Dynon actually provides the ground connections on the EFIS and EMS 
>> but then provides shitty cheap ungrounded(meaning the ground path is the 
>> bus(power) ground. Then when you tell them your having problems they say 
>> your ground path from the engine to the instrument is bad.
>> 
>> I swapped out the crappy Dynon provided ungrounded oil temp sensor which 
>> was pathetically inaccurate, with a GRT grounded(ground lug on sensor 
>> run to EMS) and now I get a smooth acurte reading unaffected by voltage 
>> or amperage changes on the power bus.
>> 
>> VDO is the manufacturer of the fuel sensor sold by Dynon.  They make a 
>> grounded sensor in the same PSI range, I need to find out if the 
>> resistance is the same across its pressure range of 80 PSI.   Or install 
>> a GRT grounded sensor, but that sensor is only rated to 30 PSI and my 
>> system is capable of producing 32 PSI.  I think that would be OK but???
>> 
>> Scott
>> 
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
>> From: Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com>
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Date: 04/02/2012 12:49 PM
>> 
>>> Back in my instrumentation days, the classes taught that "grounding" is
>>> really a misnomer. There are two type of common voltage, referred to as
>>> "ground."
>>> The first is power grounds. This is for lights, motors, alternators and
>>> that sort of stuff. The other type is for instrumentation. The sensor
>>> either generates a small voltage potential, or somehow moderates a
>>> voltage or current.
>>> 
>>> I hate grounded sensors. They mix the power return path with my
>>> sensitive acquisition system that I take great pains to keep noise free.
>>> When the mfg. provides these, they contaminate all sorts of things
>>> causing ground loops, induced voltage, and possibly injected RF noise.
>>> 
>>> I don't consider temperature probes where the body is grounded to the
>>> engine case for example to be a problem. In that case, the acquisition
>>> sensor checks for a voltage drop across the temperature probe, which is
>>> a high impedance sensor, and thus does not contaminate my sensitive
>>> acquisition voltages. It is still a current loop and that make it
>>> susceptible to noise because the current that went from the acquisition
>>> system to the probe, and into the engine case has to magically find its
>>> way back to the acquisition system somehow. The problem is that we don't
>>> know the return path, and that's the problem.
>>> 
>>> Okay off my sandbox. Can you put a voltmeter on the sensor? Do you get
>>> the same results with everything turned off except the Dynon?
>>> 
>>> On 4/2/2012 11:43 AM, Scott Derrick wrote:
>>>> I'm having an issue of a false high fuel pressure readingon my Dynon EMS.
>>>> 
>>>> I came within minutes of removing the fuel pump to see if the high
>>>> pressure reg was dirty or the recirc outlet was clogged. A 5 hour job
>>>> just to uncover the pump?
>>>> 
>>>> I happened to be testing the installation of a replacement capacitive
>>>> fuel probe and noticed the fuel pressure was reading 10 psi and the
>>>> engine was off! I played around with re-grounding the sensor(Dynon has
>>>> a serious Achilles heal because they use ungrounded sensors) to see if
>>>> that would alleviate it but no joy.
>>>> 
>>>> Anybody else have this issue?
>>>> 
>>>> I'm thinking of switching to a GRT sensor as they are 1/2 to 1/4 the
>>>> price of Dynon's and most are grounded.
>>>> 
>>>> Scott
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> To change your email address, visit
>>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>> 
>>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> To change your email address, visit
>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>> 
>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so 
>> long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened 
>> for us.
>> Helen Keller
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 16:59:38 -0500
>> From: Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com>
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
>> Message-ID: <4F7A214A.5010200 at awpi.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>> 
>> Oh.  Actually we love the same thing.
>> 
>> Yes.  I agree.  For any sensor you give me, it needs a minimum of two 
>> wires.  One for voltage reference (ground) the other for signal.
>> 
>> Using the chassey for signal return is asking for trouble.
>> 
>> On 4/2/2012 4:20 PM, Scott Derrick wrote:
>>> I love grounded sensors and have used them in instrumentation for 
>>> years in avionics( Space3 Shuttle, B1-B, etc..) and commercial 
>>> systems.  But I expect that what ever I connect the sensor to, will 
>>> provide me with the sensor ground along side the data wire(amp. volt, 
>>> freq., etc).
>>> 
>>> I completely agree that using power ground for sensors is B.A.D.
>>> 
>>> Now Dynon actually provides the ground connections on the EFIS and EMS 
>>> but then provides shitty cheap ungrounded(meaning the ground path is 
>>> the bus(power) ground. Then when you tell them your having problems 
>>> they say your ground path from the engine to the instrument is bad.
>>> 
>>> I swapped out the crappy Dynon provided ungrounded oil temp sensor 
>>> which was pathetically inaccurate, with a GRT grounded(ground lug on 
>>> sensor run to EMS) and now I get a smooth acurte reading unaffected by 
>>> voltage or amperage changes on the power bus.
>>> 
>>> VDO is the manufacturer of the fuel sensor sold by Dynon.  They make a 
>>> grounded sensor in the same PSI range, I need to find out if the 
>>> resistance is the same across its pressure range of 80 PSI.   Or 
>>> install a GRT grounded sensor, but that sensor is only rated to 30 PSI 
>>> and my system is capable of producing 32 PSI.  I think that would be 
>>> OK but???
>>> 
>>> Scott
>>> 
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
>>> From: Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com>
>>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>>> Date: 04/02/2012 12:49 PM
>>> 
>>>> Back in my instrumentation days, the classes taught that "grounding" is
>>>> really a misnomer. There are two type of common voltage, referred to as
>>>> "ground."
>>>> The first is power grounds. This is for lights, motors, alternators and
>>>> that sort of stuff. The other type is for instrumentation. The sensor
>>>> either generates a small voltage potential, or somehow moderates a
>>>> voltage or current.
>>>> 
>>>> I hate grounded sensors. They mix the power return path with my
>>>> sensitive acquisition system that I take great pains to keep noise free.
>>>> When the mfg. provides these, they contaminate all sorts of things
>>>> causing ground loops, induced voltage, and possibly injected RF noise.
>>>> 
>>>> I don't consider temperature probes where the body is grounded to the
>>>> engine case for example to be a problem. In that case, the acquisition
>>>> sensor checks for a voltage drop across the temperature probe, which is
>>>> a high impedance sensor, and thus does not contaminate my sensitive
>>>> acquisition voltages. It is still a current loop and that make it
>>>> susceptible to noise because the current that went from the acquisition
>>>> system to the probe, and into the engine case has to magically find its
>>>> way back to the acquisition system somehow. The problem is that we don't
>>>> know the return path, and that's the problem.
>>>> 
>>>> Okay off my sandbox. Can you put a voltmeter on the sensor? Do you get
>>>> the same results with everything turned off except the Dynon?
>>>> 
>>>> On 4/2/2012 11:43 AM, Scott Derrick wrote:
>>>>> I'm having an issue of a false high fuel pressure readingon my Dynon 
>>>>> EMS.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I came within minutes of removing the fuel pump to see if the high
>>>>> pressure reg was dirty or the recirc outlet was clogged. A 5 hour job
>>>>> just to uncover the pump?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I happened to be testing the installation of a replacement capacitive
>>>>> fuel probe and noticed the fuel pressure was reading 10 psi and the
>>>>> engine was off! I played around with re-grounding the sensor(Dynon has
>>>>> a serious Achilles heal because they use ungrounded sensors) to see if
>>>>> that would alleviate it but no joy.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Anybody else have this issue?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm thinking of switching to a GRT sensor as they are 1/2 to 1/4 the
>>>>> price of Dynon's and most are grounded.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Scott
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> To change your email address, visit
>>>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>>> 
>>>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> To change your email address, visit
>>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>> 
>>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Visit the gallery!  tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> 
>> End of Reflector Digest, Vol 85, Issue 3
>> ****************************************
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:52:36 -0500
> From: Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com>
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Dynon fuel pressure
> Message-ID: <4F7A65F4.4080503 at awpi.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Yes, VDO makes I thought all of their sensors in ungrounded and grounded 
> versions.  I have a few of them on the plane for oil pressure and fuel 
> pressure, which for me is 45PSI.
> 
> None of mine are hard mounted to the engine.  I've heard that the 
> vibration can cause them to fail at the neck.  The orifice is a few 
> thousandths in diameter, really small, so if it does break off it won't 
> flow very much.
> 
> On 04/02/2012 05:42 PM, Scott Derrick wrote:
>> I knew we had to be on the same track Brian!  I'm not the electron 
>> pusher you but I venture into that realm on occasion.
>> 
>> It looks like the Dynon supplied sensor is a VDO 360-003, 0-80PSI, 
>> 10-180 ohms and case ground
>> 
>> I'm going to try a VDO 360-410, 0-80PSI, 10-180ohms, with a ground 
>> lug. separate connections for ground and signal.
>> 
>> Scott
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Visit the gallery!  tvbf:jamaicangoose
> 
> End of Reflector Digest, Vol 85, Issue 4
> ****************************************



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