REFLECTOR: Franklin Will not turnover when hot

Sat May 28 15:51:01 CDT 2011

Larry,

My CHT's in 89F temperature in Florida runs 250F ~ 265F in cruise. My plenum
is split into two separate
units over each bank, instead of the single one that covers the entire
engine.

Today I went up for 1.5 hrs. After landing, I waited for ten minutes to
restart. On the first try it did not turn over.
(stuck on the first compression stroke). Then on the second try, it spun
very fast and started. This is a
big improvement over the prior starters. I think with this starter and
changing the wire from #2 to #00 will
completely eliminate the problem. Thanks to all that responded.

On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Laurence Coen <lwcoen at hotmail.com> wrote:

>  Mike,
>
> My belly scoop is the factory supplied unit which has been extended down 1"
> to move it out of the barrier layer.  My armpit scoops are also extended
> away from the fuselage and I built in a venturi like throat.  I don't know
> for sure that my way is a better way or not since I never flew with anything
> else.  With an OAT of 40F and set up for economy cruise, a couple of
> cylinders fall below 200F.  That may be too much of a good thing.
>
> Larry Coen
> N136LC
>
>  *From:* Michael Watson <mikewatsspg at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, May 27, 2011 2:45 PM
> *To:* Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: Franklin Will not turnover when hot
>
> Thanks Larry,
>
> Nicely built part. I really don't have a problem with the welded mounting
> bracket, but if I develop any, I'll PM you later.
>
> I notice that your starter is the Permanent Magnet type, as is the one I
> just installed. The two others that I had before
> including the one that came with the engine was not. They used the three
> coils inside the starter which when hot has reduced
> power and higher current draw.
>
> I like your belly scoop and will modify mine. My belly scoop is as supplied
> by the factory for the Franklin engine. It has two sides
> and the bottom, yours seems to be completely enclosed like the arm pit
> scoops, is that correct?
>
>
> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Laurence Coen <lwcoen at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  Mike & WJ,
>>
>> My brother made two starter nose pieces, the first of which is shown in
>> the photos.  The recess where the mounting bolts go are machined on the
>> wrong side.  Number two is in use.  I think that your hot start problems are
>> related to heat soaking the starter motor and the reason for the third
>> picture.  My belly scoop is extended down 1" to increase air flow over the
>> oil sump and the accessory case.  I wasn't so concerned about the starter
>> but the alternator getting too hot.  I have #2 wire and never a hot start
>> problem.  A plenum mounted blast tube for the starter might be the solution.
>>
>> Mike.  You may be able to use my "spare" nose piece if you trim off the
>> mounting ears and add an "L" shaped bracket to clamp the starter in place.
>> If you want it email me off reflector with your address and I'll send it to
>> you.
>>
>> Larry Coen
>> N136LC
>>
>> P.S.: My brother is retired and no longer has access to a machine shop.
>>
>>
>>  *From:* Michael Watson <mikewatsspg at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 22, 2011 5:13 PM
>> *To:* Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: Franklin Will not turnover when hot
>>
>> Larry,
>>
>> Mine came with the same starter and adapter plate. I replaced the original
>> starter with a skytex and then a ford (NAPA 2446115),
>> but still the same problem. I have never had a problem with adapter plate,
>> but you are right, it is poorly made and is
>> prone to leak oil back into the starter solenoid. Would your brother
>> consider making one for me? PM me if he can.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Laurence Coen <lwcoen at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>>  Mike,
>>>
>>> My Franklin came with a Honda Civic starter with a very poorly made,
>>> welded-up adapter plate.  Luckily my brother was a tool and die maker and
>>> produced an adapter of my design from an aluminum billet.  The battery is a
>>> 55 AHR Optima deep discharge with #2 wire.  Never a starting problem.
>>>
>>> Larry Coen
>>> N136LC
>>>
>>>  *From:* Michael Watson <mikewatsspg at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 18, 2011 3:38 PM
>>> *To:* Reflector <reflector at tvbf.org>
>>> *Subject:* REFLECTOR: Franklin Will not turnover when hot
>>>
>>> To all Franklin powered Velocity owners.
>>>
>>> From new, I have always had a problem starting the engine within ten to
>>> thirty minutes after landing.
>>> The engine will turn to it's first compression stroke then stop. After
>>> three or four try's I'll just have to
>>> wait thirty minutes, then the engine will turnover and start within one
>>> or two power stroke/s.
>>> This is annoying if you just want to make a quick fuel stop.
>>>
>>> I have replaced the Concord 35x with an Odyssey PC1200MJT 40AH battery
>>> 1200 Amp. starting current
>>> with the same result.  I have placed another Odyssey 960 battery behind
>>> the rear left seat, and wired it
>>> so it parallels the front battery when the starter is engaged, still same
>>> problem. A year or so ago, some
>>> one on the reflector suggested replacing the starter with a ford part
>>> number. I did that, still same problem.
>>>
>>> The plane was originally wired with #2 wire, all connectors were power
>>> crimped, the connectors to and
>>> from the contractors are cleaned, treated and re tightened at each
>>> annual. I realize that the Franklin has
>>> 10.5:1 compression and when hot, can actually be slightly more, but my
>>> BMW M5 engine is also 10.5:1
>>> compression and the same battery spins the engine very fast hot or cold.
>>> Could the problem be that the
>>> starter is being heat soaked, which reduces it's efficiency?  Is anyone
>>> else experiencing this problem?
>>>
>>> BTW:  I tried a Skytek starter which broke on the first start. it went
>>> into the garbage.
>>> --
>>> Mike W.
>>> 1997 Velocity Elite RG
>>> Franklin /IVO Electric CS
>>> Dual GRT EFIS HX Synthetic Vision
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mike W.
>> 1997 Velocity Elite RG
>> Franklin /IVO Electric CS
>> Dual GRT EFIS HX Synthetic Vision
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
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>
>
>
> --
> Mike W.
> 1997 Velocity Elite RG
> Franklin /IVO Electric CS
> Dual GRT EFIS HX Synthetic Vision
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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>

-- 
Mike W.
1997 Velocity Elite RG
Franklin /IVO Electric CS
Dual GRT EFIS HX Synthetic Vision
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