REFLECTOR: Franklin Will not turnover when hot

Sat May 28 11:20:58 CDT 2011

Mike,

My belly scoop is the factory supplied unit which has been extended down 1" to move it out of the barrier layer.  My armpit scoops are also extended away from the fuselage and I built in a venturi like throat.  I don't know for sure that my way is a better way or not since I never flew with anything else.  With an OAT of 40F and set up for economy cruise, a couple of cylinders fall below 200F.  That may be too much of a good thing.

Larry Coen
N136LC

From: Michael Watson 
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 2:45 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list 
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Franklin Will not turnover when hot

Thanks Larry,

Nicely built part. I really don't have a problem with the welded mounting bracket, but if I develop any, I'll PM you later.

I notice that your starter is the Permanent Magnet type, as is the one I just installed. The two others that I had before
including the one that came with the engine was not. They used the three coils inside the starter which when hot has reduced 
power and higher current draw.

I like your belly scoop and will modify mine. My belly scoop is as supplied by the factory for the Franklin engine. It has two sides
and the bottom, yours seems to be completely enclosed like the arm pit scoops, is that correct?  

On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Laurence Coen <lwcoen at hotmail.com> wrote:

  Mike & WJ,

  My brother made two starter nose pieces, the first of which is shown in the photos.  The recess where the mounting bolts go are machined on the wrong side.  Number two is in use.  I think that your hot start problems are related to heat soaking the starter motor and the reason for the third picture.  My belly scoop is extended down 1" to increase air flow over the oil sump and the accessory case.  I wasn't so concerned about the starter but the alternator getting too hot.  I have #2 wire and never a hot start problem.  A plenum mounted blast tube for the starter might be the solution.

  Mike.  You may be able to use my "spare" nose piece if you trim off the mounting ears and add an "L" shaped bracket to clamp the starter in place.  If you want it email me off reflector with your address and I'll send it to you.

  Larry Coen
  N136LC

  P.S.: My brother is retired and no longer has access to a machine shop.

  From: Michael Watson 
  Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 5:13 PM
  To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list 
  Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Franklin Will not turnover when hot

  Larry,

  Mine came with the same starter and adapter plate. I replaced the original starter with a skytex and then a ford (NAPA 2446115),
  but still the same problem. I have never had a problem with adapter plate, but you are right, it is poorly made and is
  prone to leak oil back into the starter solenoid. Would your brother consider making one for me? PM me if he can.

  On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Laurence Coen <lwcoen at hotmail.com> wrote:

    Mike,

    My Franklin came with a Honda Civic starter with a very poorly made, welded-up adapter plate.  Luckily my brother was a tool and die maker and produced an adapter of my design from an aluminum billet.  The battery is a 55 AHR Optima deep discharge with #2 wire.  Never a starting problem.

    Larry Coen
    N136LC

    From: Michael Watson 
    Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 3:38 PM
    To: Reflector 
    Subject: REFLECTOR: Franklin Will not turnover when hot

    To all Franklin powered Velocity owners.

    From new, I have always had a problem starting the engine within ten to thirty minutes after landing.
    The engine will turn to it's first compression stroke then stop. After three or four try's I'll just have to
    wait thirty minutes, then the engine will turnover and start within one or two power stroke/s.
    This is annoying if you just want to make a quick fuel stop. 

    I have replaced the Concord 35x with an Odyssey PC1200MJT 40AH battery 1200 Amp. starting current
    with the same result.  I have placed another Odyssey 960 battery behind the rear left seat, and wired it
    so it parallels the front battery when the starter is engaged, still same problem. A year or so ago, some
    one on the reflector suggested replacing the starter with a ford part number. I did that, still same problem.

    The plane was originally wired with #2 wire, all connectors were power crimped, the connectors to and
    from the contractors are cleaned, treated and re tightened at each annual. I realize that the Franklin has
    10.5:1 compression and when hot, can actually be slightly more, but my BMW M5 engine is also 10.5:1
    compression and the same battery spins the engine very fast hot or cold. Could the problem be that the
    starter is being heat soaked, which reduces it's efficiency?  Is anyone else experiencing this problem?

    BTW:  I tried a Skytek starter which broke on the first start. it went into the garbage. 
    -- 
    Mike W.
    1997 Velocity Elite RG
    Franklin /IVO Electric CS
    Dual GRT EFIS HX Synthetic Vision

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  -- 
  Mike W.
  1997 Velocity Elite RG
  Franklin /IVO Electric CS
  Dual GRT EFIS HX Synthetic Vision

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-- 
Mike W.
1997 Velocity Elite RG
Franklin /IVO Electric CS
Dual GRT EFIS HX Synthetic Vision

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