REFLECTOR: Franklin Will not turnover when hot

Michael Watson mikewatsspg at gmail.com
Fri May 20 09:53:53 CDT 2011


My Franklin has 378 TTSN, Last annual 10/26/2010 compression was
78,78.77,77,78,77.
Oil Temp climb out to usually 205~210, cruise 180~185. CHT climb out
370~380, cruise
345~370. All in degrees F. During landing phase, I'm usually close to idle
on decent, down wind
to final so the engine has plenty of time to cool down, however, long taxi
to the terminal or SS fuel
pumps heat it up again.


On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:21 AM, <aminetech at bluefrog.com> wrote:

> Steve,
>
> I can't dispute your data, however I believe the problem is that the
> starter is hot and therefore it doesn't work as well.  I always used to try
> to keep my engine as cool as possible before landing if I was planning to
> restart with the engine hot.  Since I put in a larger battery, hot starts
> are no longer a problem.
>
> John
>
> --- steve_beilby at yahoo.com.au wrote:
>
> From: steve beilby <steve_beilby at yahoo.com.au>
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Franklin Will not turnover when hot
> Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 20:36:16 -0700 (PDT)
>
>  Hi Mike,
>
> My Franklin used to be very hard to turn over by hand after landing.
>
> As someone else has already mentioned, I think it has to do with a hot
> engine (normal operating temps in cruise) cooling quickly in the
> descent/approach.  This causes the cylinder to contract (shrink a little)
> onto a hot piston significantly increasing friction.
>
> How many hours on your Franklin?
>
> This is only my theory; but when I planned my descents further out and kept
> some power on, to keep the cylinders warm - the engine was easier to turn
> over (by hand) after landing.
>
> My Franklin had great cylinder cooling with the factory plenum (Oil temps
> were a real pain though). This could exacerbate the issue.
>
> A simple test; turn the engine over by hand (mags off of course) before and
> then again after flight - any noticeable difference?
> Just wondering if you are going off into the weeds a bit looking at
> electrics/starter????
>
> Steve
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Michael Watson <mikewatsspg at gmail.com>
> *To:* sbjknox <sbjknox at earthlink.net>; Velocity Aircraft Owners and
> Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> *Sent:* Thu, 19 May, 2011 11:01:21 PM
> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: Franklin Will not turnover when hot
>
> Sid,
>
> Timing is checked at every annual, It's always right on, I actually have it
> set
> one degree retarded from recommended setting.  The engine does NOT kick
> back it just stops. releasing the starter releases the compression. I am an
> electronic
> engineer and am familiar with and tried most of the test procedures you
> mentioned.
> 11.2 volts at the starter while cranking, .8volts drop across main
> contractor and .65volts
> across starter contractor. After three tries, none of the wires get hot.
>
> Jeff,
>
> I'd love to, but it just wont fit.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 11:41 PM, sbjknox <sbjknox at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> I have been thinking about my last post and the possible early timing issue
> and realize that for a test you don't need to mess with the timing, simply
> try and crank it with the mags off.
>
> But beyond that, I suggest you make some voltage measurements...
> 1) Connect a voltmeter directly between the 'hot' starter terminal and the
> case ground.  Crank for a couple seconds (mags off) and record voltage.
> 2) Repeat with the voltmeter  directly across the battery posts, not on the
> cable clamps (or whatever you use to connect to the posts).
> 3) *Important* don't remain in the "locked rotor" crank mode for more than
> two or three seconds.  There will likely be hundreds of Amps flowing and
> this equates to *many* Kilowatts of heat being generated!
> 4) After taking the voltage readings, feel with your hand, each and every
> connector, terminal, the starter and master solenoids for something hot.
> Warm can be normal but not hot.  Don't forget the return (GND) path from
> the
> battery to the engine.  In that short of time, the mass of the battery and
> starter is such that you probably won't notice any heat build-up in them
> but
> be assured that if you hold the locked-rotor current for an extended period
> of time, you will likely destroy the starter and/or battery and
> solenoid(s).
> (altho, the long run of  #2 wire might save it).
>
> A six-dollar Harbor Freight digital voltmeter and some basic
> trouble-shooting  will serve you better than throwing several hundred
> dollars worth of starters and batterys on speculation at the problem.
>
>
> Sid Knox
> Oklahoma
>
> Velocity  173 RG  N199RS
> Starduster  N666SK
> KR2         N24TC
> W7QJQ
>
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>
>
>
> --
> Mike W.
> 1997 Velocity Elite RG
> Franklin /IVO Electric CS
> Dual GRT EFIS HX Synthetic Vision
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-- 
Mike W.
1997 Velocity Elite RG
Franklin /IVO Electric CS
Dual GRT EFIS HX Synthetic Vision
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