REFLECTOR: IFR training

Wed Mar 9 08:57:38 CST 2011

No (that is a question best asked to the CFII's). I am saying that you are
learning the systems and becoming more proficient and developing muscle
memory.  Good (Safe) IFR piloting is all about systems management and CRM
(even if you are a crew of 1). You certainly need to practice with a hood
and need to accommodate to the sensation of IMC as well as the transition
from cloud to VMC on approach, but you need to be very proficient in the
systems so that you can concentrate on that stuff. The single most important
thing in IFR flight (IMHO) is to "stay ahead of your airplane", which you
can only do with real systems proficiency and practice within the IFR
system.

IFR routing rarely (in the Northeast) is given as requested (unless you
already know what they like to give and file that way) and the more
experience you have, the easier it is. For instance, flying to Block Island,
from White Plains, is a direct flight of ~30 min in the Bonanza.
Unfortunately, they send me Northwest 1st, until about FL6 then turn me
northeast, then east. They will keep me @ FL7 (if I am lucky 5) until about
20 miles from the airport and at the last minute clear me to 2 (the GPS
starts @ 2). If you have done the route 20 times in VMC, you are prepared
for the slam dunk and slowed down (or begging for lower earlier). You also
know the freq. changes you will get and have all that stuff programmed in
before you start your decent, so that you can concentrate on the needles.

I am neither a CFI or an ATP, but I do like to fly IFR, so the above is just
my perspective.

Larry Epstein

On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 8:29 AM, <aminetech at bluefrog.com> wrote:

>
>
> --- ljepstein at hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> I have the luxury of flying with other pilots ~90% of the time. I routinely
> file 1 leg and fly the plan. If you use the autopilot (which you should
> ALWAYS use in actual (IMHO), there is no need to wear a view limiting
> device.
>
> Larry.  Are you saying that this counts for hood training time w/o the view
> limiting device?
>
> John
>
>
>  (Every 3rd or 4th flight I fly "under the hood", without the AP). You will
> develop the muscle memory and system fluency you need so that actual is a
> non event.
>
>
> Larry Epstein
>
> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Terry Miles <terrence_miles at hotmail.com>wrote:
>
> Scott, and everyone,
>
> These are some great ideas.  Let me add a couple.  I know we are all
> different.  So this is my 2 cents, and I also realize this thread has to do
> with getting the ticket, and less about transition into *your*airplane.  I would like to make the distinction between legal methods to get
> a license and safe ops in IMC.  If you have the time, then an in-residence,
> concentrated, professional operation (ehrrr-license mill some of them w/ a
> big question bank) that has an in-the-can program like Rene attended is a
> good way to get legal.  I think I do that myself, if I had it to do
> over, so you can get the licensing issue out of the way, and have some great
> notes and procedures and much more.
>
> Next I would take those new skills and sit long and hard in your own
> cockpit and come up with an instrument procedure pre-take off/top of descent
> flow for IMC departure and IMC arrival, and do it over and over and over in
> the airplane and then a bunch of times in front of a cardboard mock up of
> your panel and simultaneously control Velo in MS Flight Sim 2004 on
> autopilot so you are free to concentrate on procedure.  Only you can do
> this.  When you have that cold, over several nights a week for several
> weeks, invite your CFII for a cup of coffee and do a demo...again with
> the microsoft airplane on autopilot...this is procedural practice.
>
> Next step is go flying with that same CFII and see how you do, so he can be
> up on what you intended to accomplish--not that you just didn't bust
> minimums.
>
> Unless you are in your cockpit with your procedures, I would suggest
> that successful completion of course of study and a ticket in your wallet is
> more like a legal step.  To operate smoothly and safely in IMC, and have all
> the muscle memory to know instinctively what's needed in the soup in front
> of your panel, is another task.  Have a plan for both.  Or as some one once
> wrote:  "In my head, I can play a perfect game of tennis."
>
> I will add an aside note here:  I know of a local flight school with
> schools airplanes that are not GPS, so they are teaching VOR and ADF stuff.
> Do not accept that, if you plan to operate with a WAAS GPS panel go get
> appropriate training.
>
> Terry
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: scottb33333 at gmail.com
> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 14:03:00 -0500
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: IFR training
>
> While some instrument rating candidates elect to spend all of the 40-hours
> of actual or simulated instrument time with a CFI-I, this is not necessary.
> A quick summary of the aeronautica experience needed to take the Instrument
> rating examination are:
> *    50-hours PIC Cross Country time (not necessarily simulate instrument
> time, these hours can be VFR)
> *    40-hours of actual or simulated (i.e. hood) instrument time
> *    At least 15-hours of dual flight instruction from a CFI-I
> *    At least 3-hours of which are spent with your CFI-I in test
> preparation within 60-days of taking the examination
> *    IFR cross country flight (actual, with a CFI-I on board - or -
> simulated (hood) with a safety pilot) - see FAR61.65(d)(2)(iii) for details
>
> You must have a combination of instrument flight instruction and simulated
> (hood) time with a safety pilot that totals a minimum of 40-hours.  The dual
> instrument instruction that you received from your CFI while earning your
> Student and Private ratings count towards this total.  If your CFI was also
> a CFI-I, then the dual instruction from 'back then' would also count towards
> the 15-hours (minumum) of dual instruction from a CFI-I.  The balance of the
> 40-hours can be under simulated (hood) flight with a safety pilot.  The
> safety pilot does not need to be a CFI or a CFI-I.  The only way you can
> legally operate and log 'actual' dual instrument flight time is with a CFI
> in a command seat.  You could not, for instance, log 'actual' instrument
> time with an IFR rated safety pilot - if you encounter IMC during simulated
> (hood) flight with an IFR rated safety pilot, the safety pilot legally
> becomes the PIC.
>
> And, as Andy mentioned, you may apply up to 20-hours of the needed 40-hours
> of simulated instrument time in an approved flight training device with a
> CFI-I.  Time 'flying' an approved flight training device without a CFI
> cannot be logged.
>
> In my opinion the best approach is to team up with a good CFI-I.  Map out a
> plan to spend between 5 to 10-hours in an approved flight training device
> with your CFI-I.  The flight training device is a gread medium to learn
> approach and holding procedures.
> Then spend another 10-hours with your CFI in the aircraft.  Ask your CFI
> what he/she feels about dual instruction in IMC.  I highly recommend it!
> Also, during that time, do some night hood time with your CFI - or maybe do
> the 250-mile cross country at night with your CFI-I.  This is a great
> experience.  By this time you should have around 25-hours of dual instrument
> time with a CFI-I.  At this point I would team up with an IFR rated safety
> pilot - and go fly about 10-hours practicing under the hood what you have
> learned.  When you feel that things have 'come together' - schedule 5-hours
> or more with your CFI-I in preparation for the Instrument Practical Test.
>
> Remember that 40-hours is the minimum required by the FAA.  Many pilots
> require more time time to master what needs to be learned.  Learning and
> getting ready for the IFR check ride is demanding.  You will do better, and
> take less time if you can clear your schedule of work - and fly 2 or 3 times
> each week.
>
> Instrument flight and instrument flight training is about learning to
> "walk, talk, and chew gum at the same time".  You will be amazed at the
> number of times you will ask your CFI-I, "What'd he say?" when ATC issues
> you instructions.  It's about learning procedures, staying ahead of the
> aircraft, situational awareness, and making good decisions.
>
> Scott B
> CFI-I
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Andrew Judge <ajudge at grovenetworks.com>
> *To:* Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 03, 2011 12:47 PM
> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: IFR training
>
>  You’ll need 40+ hours with the CFII. 20 of which can be in approved
> simulator with the CFII. That’s as far as I know or at least was shown to me
> as a IFR student just one / two years ago. John can probably answer that
> much better.
>
> I did 2 hours in a simulator and hated it. I think it was much better in a
> plane anyway. I didn’t use my velocity because we thought it might be hard
> to get a check ride in it. It might be feasible to do 20 hours in a velocity
> and then 20 in a 172 or something to prepare for the check ride. I had 18
> hours from 12 years ago and spent 22 hours in a 172 preparing.
>
> Andy
>
> *From:* reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] *On
> Behalf Of *nmflyer1 at aol.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 03, 2011 12:23 PM
> *To:* reflector at tvbf.org
> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: IFR training
>
> Lou,
>
>  I am sure that a CFII will have better answers than I do. When I got my
> IFR, you were allowed to complete a portion (can't remember how much) of
> your IFR training on/in an "approved simulator". This actually was cost
> effective and a good way to begin basic scan and principles. I believe that
> you do have to have At Least 15 hours of time with a CFII, and a total of 40
> when you combine simulators & flying.
>
>  Kurt
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lou Stedman <stedmanlou at roadrunner.com>
> To: Reflector <Reflector at tvbf.org>; Canard Aviators <
> canard-aviators at yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thu, Mar 3, 2011 10:14 am
> Subject: REFLECTOR: IFR training
>  I am considering taking training to get my IFR certificate. I am confused
> as to what the requirements of a CFI or CFII are. Part 61.65 says that 40
> hours of actual or simulated IFR training is required before I can take the
> check ride. Then it says that 15 hrs with a CFII are required, 3 of which
> have to be within 60 days of the check ride. It also states that a 250 mile
> cross country is required.
>
>  What I am confused about is how much of the 40 hrs has to be with a CFII?
> Is it only 15 hrs and the rest is just with a check pilot? As usual the FAR
> is confusing. Any help would be appreciated.
>  Lou Stedman
> Velocity SEFG
> N7044Q
> Olean, NY
>
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