REFLECTOR: IFR training

velocityoner at yahoo.com velocityoner at yahoo.com
Wed Mar 9 00:45:26 CST 2011


Larry,
You're absolutely right Larry. However be careful using the autopilot. For three years I flew freight six nights a week and always used the back course to get into Dothan. On the one morning that the autopilot was out I was fine until the back course. It was so sloppy that O swore from that point on I would never use an autopilot again for an approach. Now that's a little extreme I admit but just make sure that you keep your skills up to be able to survive with the minimum amount of help. 
Victor Taylor CFII

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 8, 2011, at 2:24 PM, Lawrence Epstein <ljepstein at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I would agree wholeheartedly with Terry.
> 
> I would add that once you have you ticket, you should fly "in the system" as often as possible. (In your aircraft).
> 
> When you get your ticket, look for days with ~1000 ft ceilings ~1 mile vis and go shoot approaches, with another IFR qualified person in the right seat. Let them handle the radio frequencies (you talk) for the first few sessions.
> 
> I have the luxury of flying with other pilots ~90% of the time. I routinely file 1 leg and fly the plan. If you use the autopilot (which you should ALWAYS use in actual (IMHO), there is no need to wear a view limiting device. (Every 3rd or 4th flight I fly "under the hood", without the AP). You will develop the muscle memory and system fluency you need so that actual is a non event.
> 
> 
> Larry Epstein
> 
> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Terry Miles <terrence_miles at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Scott, and everyone,
>  
> These are some great ideas.  Let me add a couple.  I know we are all different.  So this is my 2 cents, and I also realize this thread has to do with getting the ticket, and less about transition into your airplane.  I would like to make the distinction between legal methods to get a license and safe ops in IMC.  If you have the time, then an in-residence, concentrated, professional operation (ehrrr-license mill some of them w/ a big question bank) that has an in-the-can program like Rene attended is a good way to get legal.  I think I do that myself, if I had it to do over, so you can get the licensing issue out of the way, and have some great notes and procedures and much more.   
>  
> Next I would take those new skills and sit long and hard in your own cockpit and come up with an instrument procedure pre-take off/top of descent flow for IMC departure and IMC arrival, and do it over and over and over in the airplane and then a bunch of times in front of a cardboard mock up of your panel and simultaneously control Velo in MS Flight Sim 2004 on autopilot so you are free to concentrate on procedure.  Only you can do this.  When you have that cold, over several nights a week for several weeks, invite your CFII for a cup of coffee and do a demo...again with the microsoft airplane on autopilot...this is procedural practice.     
>  
> Next step is go flying with that same CFII and see how you do, so he can be up on what you intended to accomplish--not that you just didn't bust minimums.   
>  
> Unless you are in your cockpit with your procedures, I would suggest that successful completion of course of study and a ticket in your wallet is more like a legal step.  To operate smoothly and safely in IMC, and have all the muscle memory to know instinctively what's needed in the soup in front of your panel, is another task.  Have a plan for both.  Or as some one once wrote:  "In my head, I can play a perfect game of tennis."
>  
> I will add an aside note here:  I know of a local flight school with schools airplanes that are not GPS, so they are teaching VOR and ADF stuff.  Do not accept that, if you plan to operate with a WAAS GPS panel go get appropriate training.  
>  
> Terry 
>  
>  
>  
> From: scottb33333 at gmail.com
> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 14:03:00 -0500
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: IFR training
> 
> While some instrument rating candidates elect to spend all of the 40-hours of actual or simulated instrument time with a CFI-I, this is not necessary.
> A quick summary of the aeronautica experience needed to take the Instrument rating examination are:
> *    50-hours PIC Cross Country time (not necessarily simulate instrument time, these hours can be VFR)
> *    40-hours of actual or simulated (i.e. hood) instrument time
> *    At least 15-hours of dual flight instruction from a CFI-I
> *    At least 3-hours of which are spent with your CFI-I in test preparation within 60-days of taking the examination
> *    IFR cross country flight (actual, with a CFI-I on board - or - simulated (hood) with a safety pilot) - see FAR61.65(d)(2)(iii) for details
>  
> You must have a combination of instrument flight instruction and simulated (hood) time with a safety pilot that totals a minimum of 40-hours.  The dual instrument instruction that you received from your CFI while earning your Student and Private ratings count towards this total.  If your CFI was also a CFI-I, then the dual instruction from 'back then' would also count towards the 15-hours (minumum) of dual instruction from a CFI-I.  The balance of the 40-hours can be under simulated (hood) flight with a safety pilot.  The safety pilot does not need to be a CFI or a CFI-I.  The only way you can legally operate and log 'actual' dual instrument flight time is with a CFI in a command seat.  You could not, for instance, log 'actual' instrument time with an IFR rated safety pilot - if you encounter IMC during simulated (hood) flight with an IFR rated safety pilot, the safety pilot legally becomes the PIC.
>  
> And, as Andy mentioned, you may apply up to 20-hours of the needed 40-hours of simulated instrument time in an approved flight training device with a CFI-I.  Time 'flying' an approved flight training device without a CFI cannot be logged.
>  
> In my opinion the best approach is to team up with a good CFI-I.  Map out a plan to spend between 5 to 10-hours in an approved flight training device with your CFI-I.  The flight training device is a gread medium to learn approach and holding procedures.
> Then spend another 10-hours with your CFI in the aircraft.  Ask your CFI what he/she feels about dual instruction in IMC.  I highly recommend it!  Also, during that time, do some night hood time with your CFI - or maybe do the 250-mile cross country at night with your CFI-I.  This is a great experience.  By this time you should have around 25-hours of dual instrument time with a CFI-I.  At this point I would team up with an IFR rated safety pilot - and go fly about 10-hours practicing under the hood what you have learned.  When you feel that things have 'come together' - schedule 5-hours or more with your CFI-I in preparation for the Instrument Practical Test.
>  
> Remember that 40-hours is the minimum required by the FAA.  Many pilots require more time time to master what needs to be learned.  Learning and getting ready for the IFR check ride is demanding.  You will do better, and take less time if you can clear your schedule of work - and fly 2 or 3 times each week. 
>  
> Instrument flight and instrument flight training is about learning to "walk, talk, and chew gum at the same time".  You will be amazed at the number of times you will ask your CFI-I, "What'd he say?" when ATC issues you instructions.  It's about learning procedures, staying ahead of the aircraft, situational awareness, and making good decisions.
>  
> Scott B
> CFI-I
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Andrew Judge
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 12:47 PM
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: IFR training
> 
> You’ll need 40+ hours with the CFII. 20 of which can be in approved simulator with the CFII. That’s as far as I know or at least was shown to me as a IFR student just one / two years ago. John can probably answer that much better.
> 
>  
> 
> I did 2 hours in a simulator and hated it. I think it was much better in a plane anyway. I didn’t use my velocity because we thought it might be hard to get a check ride in it. It might be feasible to do 20 hours in a velocity and then 20 in a 172 or something to prepare for the check ride. I had 18 hours from 12 years ago and spent 22 hours in a 172 preparing.
> 
>  
> 
> Andy
> 
>  
> 
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of nmflyer1 at aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 12:23 PM
> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: IFR training
> 
>  
> 
> Lou, 
> 
>  
> 
> I am sure that a CFII will have better answers than I do. When I got my IFR, you were allowed to complete a portion (can't remember how much) of your IFR training on/in an "approved simulator". This actually was cost effective and a good way to begin basic scan and principles. I believe that you do have to have At Least 15 hours of time with a CFII, and a total of 40 when you combine simulators & flying. 
> 
>  
> 
> Kurt 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lou Stedman <stedmanlou at roadrunner.com>
> To: Reflector <Reflector at tvbf.org>; Canard Aviators <canard-aviators at yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thu, Mar 3, 2011 10:14 am
> Subject: REFLECTOR: IFR training
> 
> I am considering taking training to get my IFR certificate. I am confused as to what the requirements of a CFI or CFII are. Part 61.65 says that 40 hours of actual or simulated IFR training is required before I can take the check ride. Then it says that 15 hrs with a CFII are required, 3 of which have to be within 60 days of the check ride. It also states that a 250 mile cross country is required.
> 
>  
> 
> What I am confused about is how much of the 40 hrs has to be with a CFII? Is it only 15 hrs and the rest is just with a check pilot? As usual the FAR is confusing. Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Lou Stedman
> Velocity SEFG
> N7044Q
> Olean, NY
> 
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