REFLECTOR: IFR training

Lawrence Epstein ljepstein at hotmail.com
Tue Mar 8 14:24:22 CST 2011


I would agree wholeheartedly with Terry.

I would add that once you have you ticket, you should fly "in the system" as
often as possible. (In your aircraft).

When you get your ticket, look for days with ~1000 ft ceilings ~1 mile vis
and go shoot approaches, with another IFR qualified person in the right
seat. Let them handle the radio frequencies (you talk) for the first few
sessions.

I have the luxury of flying with other pilots ~90% of the time. I routinely
file 1 leg and fly the plan. If you use the autopilot (which you should
ALWAYS use in actual (IMHO), there is no need to wear a view limiting
device. (Every 3rd or 4th flight I fly "under the hood", without the AP).
You will develop the muscle memory and system fluency you need so that
actual is a non event.


Larry Epstein

On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Terry Miles <terrence_miles at hotmail.com>wrote:

>  Scott, and everyone,
>
> These are some great ideas.  Let me add a couple.  I know we are all
> different.  So this is my 2 cents, and I also realize this thread has to do
> with getting the ticket, and less about transition into *your*airplane.  I would like to make the distinction between legal methods to get
> a license and safe ops in IMC.  If you have the time, then an in-residence,
> concentrated, professional operation (ehrrr-license mill some of them w/ a
> big question bank) that has an in-the-can program like Rene attended is a
> good way to get legal.  I think I do that myself, if I had it to do
> over, so you can get the licensing issue out of the way, and have some great
> notes and procedures and much more.
>
> Next I would take those new skills and sit long and hard in your own
> cockpit and come up with an instrument procedure pre-take off/top of descent
> flow for IMC departure and IMC arrival, and do it over and over and over in
> the airplane and then a bunch of times in front of a cardboard mock up of
> your panel and simultaneously control Velo in MS Flight Sim 2004 on
> autopilot so you are free to concentrate on procedure.  Only you can do
> this.  When you have that cold, over several nights a week for several
> weeks, invite your CFII for a cup of coffee and do a demo...again with
> the microsoft airplane on autopilot...this is procedural practice.
>
> Next step is go flying with that same CFII and see how you do, so he can be
> up on what you intended to accomplish--not that you just didn't bust
> minimums.
>
> Unless you are in your cockpit with your procedures, I would suggest
> that successful completion of course of study and a ticket in your wallet is
> more like a legal step.  To operate smoothly and safely in IMC, and have all
> the muscle memory to know instinctively what's needed in the soup in front
> of your panel, is another task.  Have a plan for both.  Or as some one once
> wrote:  "In my head, I can play a perfect game of tennis."
>
> I will add an aside note here:  I know of a local flight school with
> schools airplanes that are not GPS, so they are teaching VOR and ADF stuff.
> Do not accept that, if you plan to operate with a WAAS GPS panel go get
> appropriate training.
>
> Terry
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: scottb33333 at gmail.com
> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 14:03:00 -0500
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: IFR training
>
> While some instrument rating candidates elect to spend all of the 40-hours
> of actual or simulated instrument time with a CFI-I, this is not necessary.
> A quick summary of the aeronautica experience needed to take the Instrument
> rating examination are:
> *    50-hours PIC Cross Country time (not necessarily simulate instrument
> time, these hours can be VFR)
> *    40-hours of actual or simulated (i.e. hood) instrument time
> *    At least 15-hours of dual flight instruction from a CFI-I
> *    At least 3-hours of which are spent with your CFI-I in test
> preparation within 60-days of taking the examination
> *    IFR cross country flight (actual, with a CFI-I on board - or -
> simulated (hood) with a safety pilot) - see FAR61.65(d)(2)(iii) for details
>
> You must have a combination of instrument flight instruction and simulated
> (hood) time with a safety pilot that totals a minimum of 40-hours.  The dual
> instrument instruction that you received from your CFI while earning your
> Student and Private ratings count towards this total.  If your CFI was also
> a CFI-I, then the dual instruction from 'back then' would also count towards
> the 15-hours (minumum) of dual instruction from a CFI-I.  The balance of the
> 40-hours can be under simulated (hood) flight with a safety pilot.  The
> safety pilot does not need to be a CFI or a CFI-I.  The only way you can
> legally operate and log 'actual' dual instrument flight time is with a CFI
> in a command seat.  You could not, for instance, log 'actual' instrument
> time with an IFR rated safety pilot - if you encounter IMC during simulated
> (hood) flight with an IFR rated safety pilot, the safety pilot legally
> becomes the PIC.
>
> And, as Andy mentioned, you may apply up to 20-hours of the needed 40-hours
> of simulated instrument time in an approved flight training device with a
> CFI-I.  Time 'flying' an approved flight training device without a CFI
> cannot be logged.
>
> In my opinion the best approach is to team up with a good CFI-I.  Map out a
> plan to spend between 5 to 10-hours in an approved flight training device
> with your CFI-I.  The flight training device is a gread medium to learn
> approach and holding procedures.
> Then spend another 10-hours with your CFI in the aircraft.  Ask your CFI
> what he/she feels about dual instruction in IMC.  I highly recommend it!
> Also, during that time, do some night hood time with your CFI - or maybe do
> the 250-mile cross country at night with your CFI-I.  This is a great
> experience.  By this time you should have around 25-hours of dual instrument
> time with a CFI-I.  At this point I would team up with an IFR rated safety
> pilot - and go fly about 10-hours practicing under the hood what you have
> learned.  When you feel that things have 'come together' - schedule 5-hours
> or more with your CFI-I in preparation for the Instrument Practical Test.
>
> Remember that 40-hours is the minimum required by the FAA.  Many pilots
> require more time time to master what needs to be learned.  Learning and
> getting ready for the IFR check ride is demanding.  You will do better, and
> take less time if you can clear your schedule of work - and fly 2 or 3 times
> each week.
>
> Instrument flight and instrument flight training is about learning to
> "walk, talk, and chew gum at the same time".  You will be amazed at the
> number of times you will ask your CFI-I, "What'd he say?" when ATC issues
> you instructions.  It's about learning procedures, staying ahead of the
> aircraft, situational awareness, and making good decisions.
>
> Scott B
> CFI-I
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Andrew Judge <ajudge at grovenetworks.com>
> *To:* Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 03, 2011 12:47 PM
> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: IFR training
>
>  You’ll need 40+ hours with the CFII. 20 of which can be in approved
> simulator with the CFII. That’s as far as I know or at least was shown to me
> as a IFR student just one / two years ago. John can probably answer that
> much better.
>
>
>
> I did 2 hours in a simulator and hated it. I think it was much better in a
> plane anyway. I didn’t use my velocity because we thought it might be hard
> to get a check ride in it. It might be feasible to do 20 hours in a velocity
> and then 20 in a 172 or something to prepare for the check ride. I had 18
> hours from 12 years ago and spent 22 hours in a 172 preparing.
>
>
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> *From:* reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] *On
> Behalf Of *nmflyer1 at aol.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 03, 2011 12:23 PM
> *To:* reflector at tvbf.org
> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: IFR training
>
>
>
> Lou,
>
>
>
> I am sure that a CFII will have better answers than I do. When I got my
> IFR, you were allowed to complete a portion (can't remember how much) of
> your IFR training on/in an "approved simulator". This actually was cost
> effective and a good way to begin basic scan and principles. I believe that
> you do have to have At Least 15 hours of time with a CFII, and a total of 40
> when you combine simulators & flying.
>
>
>
> Kurt
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lou Stedman <stedmanlou at roadrunner.com>
> To: Reflector <Reflector at tvbf.org>; Canard Aviators <
> canard-aviators at yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thu, Mar 3, 2011 10:14 am
> Subject: REFLECTOR: IFR training
>
> I am considering taking training to get my IFR certificate. I am confused
> as to what the requirements of a CFI or CFII are. Part 61.65 says that 40
> hours of actual or simulated IFR training is required before I can take the
> check ride. Then it says that 15 hrs with a CFII are required, 3 of which
> have to be within 60 days of the check ride. It also states that a 250 mile
> cross country is required.
>
>
>
> What I am confused about is how much of the 40 hrs has to be with a CFII?
> Is it only 15 hrs and the rest is just with a check pilot? As usual the FAR
> is confusing. Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Lou Stedman
> Velocity SEFG
> N7044Q
> Olean, NY
>
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