REFLECTOR: MT burned out pickup - fly? (Karl J. Warner)
Dave T Nelson
dtnelson at us.ibm.com
Fri Jun 10 11:59:42 CDT 2011
Karl, as pointed out by Laurence, I had my terminology backwards... I
should have been saying that my prop drifted towards fine pitch / runaway,
not towards feather.
Re. your other comment, the electrically controllable MT prop that I have
does not have any hard stops. The force on it simply seemed to push it
into fine pitch over time, with nothing to stop it.
Dave
Dave T. Nelson
T/L 553-4327, Voice 507-253-4327, Fax 507-253-3648
Program Director, ISC ECAT NPI & Test Engineering
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Today's Topics:
1. MT burned out pickup - fly? (Karl J. Warner)
2. Prop runaway, not feather (Dave T Nelson)
----- Message from "Karl J. Warner" <karljwarnerpa at earthlink.net> on Fri,
10 Jun 2011 11:38:06 -0400 -----
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: REFLECTOR: MT burned out pickup -
fly?
I'm curious... wouldn't a prop going to feather create low RPM instead of
high? If the prop goes towards high RPM, does the electric MT have "hard
stops" that can be ground adjustable like the hydraulic MT I fly? With a
hard stop you could set static RPM on the ground to 2400-2500 or so and
have room to cruise.
Just wondering aloud...
----- Message from Dave T Nelson <dtnelson at us.ibm.com> on Fri, 10 Jun 2011
11:08:16 -0500 -----
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: REFLECTOR: Prop runaway, not
feather
Ha... you are correct... my bad!
Dave
Dave T. Nelson
T/L 553-4327, Voice 507-253-4327, Fax 507-253-3648
Program Director, ISC ECAT NPI & Test Engineering
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Date: 06/10/2011 11:03 AM
Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 75, Issue 55
Sent by: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org
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Today's Topics:
1. Prop runaway, not feather (Laurence Coen)
----- Message from "Laurence Coen" <lwcoen at hotmail.com> on Fri, 10 Jun 2011
11:01:01 -0500 -----
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list"
<reflector at tvbf.org>
Subject: REFLECTOR: Prop runaway, not feather
I apologize for being the semantic police but going to fine pitch is the
opposite of going to feather. Feathering a prop when you lose an engine on
a twin and you set the blades so that the prop stops turning to reduce
drag. Constant speed props on single engine planes can't go into feather as
a general rule. I have an IVO electrically controlled prop that has
positive stops for course and fine pitch that are set so that the plane
will be flyable if it gets stuck at either extreme.
Larry Coen
N136LC
From: Dave T Nelson
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 10:18 AM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: REFLECTOR: MT burned out pickup - fly?
Hi Sid,
As I said in my other post, I don't think it's a good idea to fly... having
done it, there is risk.
If Andy's brush block is burned out, he won't be able to control the prop
in manual mode.
My experience was pretty much directly applicable. The prop does not stay
where it was left for long... it starts to feather... RPM (and
temperatures) go up, and thrust goes down... eventually forcing a landing,
since as the prop feathers and thrust decreases, eventually you don't have
enough thrust even at redline RPM to stay in the air.
I made a bad decision trying to ferry my plane home in this condition... I
wouldn't recommend it to anyone.
Dave
Dave T. Nelson
T/L 553-4327, Voice 507-253-4327, Fax 507-253-3648
Program Director, ISC ECAT NPI & Test Engineering
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Date: 06/10/2011 09:10 AM
Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 75, Issue 53
Sent by: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: MT elcoprop - burned out pickup - fly? (sbjknox)
2. Re: Hats (Bob Jackson)
3. Re: Fuel Sight Gauges (Scott Derrick)
----- Message from "sbjknox" <sbjknox at earthlink.net> on Fri, 10 Jun 2011
07:55:05 -0500 -----
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list"
<reflector at tvbf.org>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: MT elcoprop - burned out pickup -
fly?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Judge" <ajudge at grovenetworks.com>
Subject: REFLECTOR: MT elcoprop - burned out pickup - fly?
> I've got my second burned out brush block after about 230 hours on it.
> It's stuck in a fixed position. I was wondering if anyone has flown one
> fixed
> like this until they were able to get a new brush block. Seems to be ok
> flying.
> Attached is the picture of it at 5000 and I got a static of 2580. I've
got
> to get to MA...
> Andy
Hi Andy,
I began having trouble with the MT prop controller on my Velocity the first
day I owned it and was flying it home from FL. This was an intermittent
problem and it almost made me crazy trying to figure out the cause. I would
remove the top cowling and began troubleshooting and suddenly it would
start
working. Then be ok for a few minutes or a few hours and fail again.
On mine, the brush block was mounted on an aluminum bracket with only one
mounting point to the engine. This allowed for excessive movement out at
the end where the brush block was located causing poor contact with the
slip-rings and wearing the brushes unevenly.
I bought a new brush block and modified the mounting so as to be more
rigid.
This was about nine years ago and operation has been proper since.
My controller has two switches... one to select 'Auto/Manual' and the other
to raise/lower the rpm when running in Manual mode. And of course, the knob
(pot) to set the rpm in Auto. And a light to show when the prop is at the
max-rpm limit-stop. One can easily fly the plane in Manual mode... just be
careful on takeoff (full power) not to over-rev the engine.
Sid Knox
Oklahoma
Velocity 173 RG N199RS
Starduster N666SK
KR2 N24TC
W7QJQ
----- Message from "Bob Jackson" <bobj at computer.org> on Fri, 10 Jun 2011
09:54:13 -0400 -----
To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'"
<reflector at tvbf.org>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Hats
Nice hats!
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of John Abraham
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2011 8:50 AM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: REFLECTOR: Hats
All of you who ordered hats and did not receive them yet I am sorry for the
delay. I ran out of boxes to ship them and they just arrived Friday. They
will be completed going out this week.
Thanks,
John Abraham
Chief Pilot; Executive V.P. Sales and Marketing
velocity-logo
P: (772) 589-1860 200 W. Airport Dr.
F: (772) 589-1893 Sebastian, FL 32958
www.velocityaircraft.com
----- Message from Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net> on Fri, 10 Jun 2011
08:03:01 -0600 -----
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
<reflector at tvbf.org>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Fuel Sight Gauges
I made two balls out of micro.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Fuel Sight Gauges
From: Rene Dugas <dugasd at bellsouth.net>
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list' <reflector at tvbf.org>
Date: 06/09/2011 05:32 PM
Brian,
What kind of red ball? I use a cork ball but don’t like the look.
Clipped the hook off a Popping Bug (dry fly fishing lure) also but it
scared the young Eagles with the Eyes and all.
Rene’
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]
On Behalf Of Brian Michalk
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 2:31 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Fuel Sight Gauges
I'm using that Tygon from McMaster.
I do have fuel in the tanks, and the yellow color is not that big of
a problem. They have been in fuel for less than a year, so I can't
comment on durability.
I have a strip of electroluminescent light behind mine, and a
floating red ball.
On 6/9/2011 2:06 PM, Tom Falls wrote:
For those using Tygon tubing AND auto fuel, are you just
getting the tubing from a big box lumber store or are you
ordering a special type? I have learned there many formulations
http://www.tygon.com/tygon-traditional-tubing.aspx
Anybody using Tygon F-4040 (made for fuel use)? How easy is it
to see the fuel level? http://www.mcmaster.com/#5552k32/=cobblm
. It’s only available as semi-clear yellow. I’m hoping others
are having reasonable success with something clear.
Tom
From: Tom Falls [mailto:tomfalls6 at gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 10:18 PM
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: Fuel Sight Gauges
Thanks Kurt . . . I like simple!! As an improvement I think I’ll see
if I can find a good clear hard tube that is slightly larger diameter
than the tygon to protect it from accidental damage. I’m with Brett
and Jim. The tygon by itself makes me nervous. I think your cover
provides some protection, but for my comfort it needs a little more.
Tom
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]
On Behalf Of nmflyer1 at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 6:51 PM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Fuel Sight Gauges
Tom,
Ridiculously simple really. I have the stock elbows and tygon tubing.
Tubing clamps are the low profile plastic ones that lock/ratchet
together when squeezed.
To make the covers: I found PVC pipe that was about the right
diameter to give me room to cover the sight gauges, then cut it to
the length needed. Then I just laid it up on a bench using the PVC as
a dummy form.
Once done, I did the usual release & sand.
Painting: I went to Home depot with a sample of my material that I
wanted to match. They made me a very good match in one of their
sample latex packs (bout a pint). Sprayed it with an airbrush. Cost:
$1.99. Matches great and I have used that for areas around the door
pins, covers, etc. Once done and labeled, you can hit it with a coat
of clear to lock in the labels & gloss it up a bit if you like.
Ways to hold them in place: Dab of silicone (clean well before hand).
or Velcro.
I have LED lighting in the top of the baggage area shining down. That
gives plenty of non-glaring light to see the tubes.. also makes it
easy to load the aircraft without powering it up (runs directly off 1
battery thru a 1A fuse).
Hope that helps. Kurt
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Falls <tomfalls6 at gmail.com>
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list' <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2011 3:50 pm
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Fuel Sight Gauges
Kurt,
Your installation looks fantastic and would work great for me. Can
you share more detail about the construction including tubing
material and the type of tubing clamps you used?
Thanks much,
Tom
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]
On Behalf Of nmflyer1 at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 7:24 PM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Fuel Sight Gauges
Tom,
Here is how I did mine. I have not labeled them yet since I haven't
done the W&B with fuel loading. Copy & paste if the links do not
work.
http://tinypic.com/r/2441biw/7
http://tinypic.com/r/121qtxw/7 ;
Kurt
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Falls <tomfalls6 at gmail.com>
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Tue, Jun 7, 2011 8:53 am
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Fuel Sight Gauges
I guess I missed that. I do plan on using auto fuel, so it's the
factory design for me.
For those with the factory style sight gauges, could please send
pictures of how you did the interior around them to make them more
pleasing to the eye?
Thanks much,
Tom
On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 5:00 PM, vance atkinson <nostromo56 at tx.rr.com>
wrote:
On 6/5/2011 12:45 AM, Al Gietzen wrote:
As I’ve mentioned previously; if you intend to use auto fuels, don’t
use the Atkinson gauge. The white plastic background material is not
compatible – unless it has been changed within the past couple of
years.
Al
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [
mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Falls
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 6:11 AM
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
Subject: REFLECTOR: Fuel Sight Gauges
On the topic of sight gauges (from Low fuel warning thread),
I've heard rumblings of issues with the Atkinson gauges. I'm
getting ready to install them. What are the watch-outs and/or
improvements to make sure they remain effective and useful for
the life of the plane? Or is it a matter of avoiding certain
fuels?
Tom
They are not approved for auto fuel anymore and for the past several
years the mfgs have been putting things in the fuel (and not telling
the public) that can make the gauges crack and also soften. The
gauges are certainly NOT to be used with ethanol. I just use Av gas
in my COZY, and for 25 years have had NO problems.
I usually tell builders if you HAVE to use auto fuel (no ethanol in
it) then put it the tank and use it up right away on your flight.
don't let it sit there for a month.
Vance Atkinson
EAA Tech and Flt Advisor
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