REFLECTOR: Water Injection

Alex Balic velocity_pilot at verizon.net
Sat Dec 10 14:40:56 CST 2011


Hey Mark-

Do you have the contact info for the company that makes the injection
system?

 

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Magee
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 9:34 AM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Water Injection

 

Alex,
The turbo'd folks would get the greatest benefit from a water injector per
all the data. Just use it in your climbout for the most part. The new
computerized one would reduce the injection flow for us Normally Aspirated
folks as we climbed into thinner air. With your turbo and a WOT climb your
flow would be more consistent and use much more water. There is an
efficiency gain I haven't discussed for my problem currently is heat, and I
after heat reduction. But most data shows meaningful reduction in fuel flow
and no loss of power,  particularly in Turbo'd and supercharged engines as
well as turbines. NA engines see some gains but really not much to speak of,
under say 5% lower fuel flow. Turbo/supercharged apps will tell you in the
range of 10 or more % reduction in fuel flow for the same HP. Numbers are
all over the board but the theory is that the water vapor after combustion
will turn to steam and produce a "steam engine" effect and give some extra
'pop' in the power stroke. As well, some of  the H2O will break down under
pressure, fire and heat into it's elements: hydrogen and oxygen, both of
which are beneficial to the combustion process.
I know a fellow in Washington state that runs a computer controlled water
injector on his turbo charged, non intercooled  6.5 TD Detroit Diesel
Suburban pulling a 12,000 lb trailer in the mountains in the summer. He
claims he burns 1 gal of water (no methanol) for every gallon of diesel
burned: he has a 30 gallon water tank. Truck never gets hot.  As well he
claims 18MPG with the water on, and 11 with it turned off. Something good is
happening. You can read similar stories all over the diesel truck blogs.

Mark

On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Alex Balic <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
wrote:

Please keep us posted- I would definitely be interested to see the
comparisons- I am running a turbocharger- and even though it has an
intercooler, takeoff would not have a lot of air going through it at first,
so it would not have much effect until airborne, and less than perfect
cooling during a steep climb out (roof NACA) so the water injection system
would probably be a great application for at least the first few minutes of
flight.

 

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Grover McNair
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 4:51 PM


To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Water Injection

 

In a water injection system, water is injected into the air going into the
intake usually ahead of the throttle body. It is vaporized thus cooling the
intake charge. The vaporized water passes through the combustion chamber and
out the exhaust. The crank case never sees an appreciable amount of water.
This is fairly common on turbocharged high performance automotive engines.

Grover McNair

 

  _____  

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Brian Michalk
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 2:13 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Water Injection

 

Ah.  In that case, I think it's a really cool idea.

I actually have another idea that is very risky, bordering on the insane,
that would be used to cool oil temperatures.

During the normal combustion of fuel, the byproducts are CO2 and water.
Now, a portion of that water makes it into our oil, where it is boiled off
when the engine reaches operating temperature.  So, if there's already water
in the oil, how bad could it be to add a little bit more?

The idea would be to have a really high pressure water injection system,
let's say 2,000 PSI, with an atomizing nozzle that is able to deliver
droplets in the micron range.  If this nozzle were installed to the crank
cover (the Franklin has one) at the top of the engine, the water should
never actually make contact with the engine oil.  It should instantly flash
to vapor, consuming heat in the process, and then get ejected out the
crankcase ventilating tube.  I suppose an alternate solution would be a
cover specially made into a water jacket that sacrifices water boiling to
the atmosphere, allowing the heat to be removed that way.

Actually, now that I think about it compared to conventional water
injection, it's probably no more hazardous than squirting it into the hot
side of the cylinder.  In my case, it would be nice to be able to sit on the
taxiway without having to worry about overheating before takeoff.  For your
case, you need it to cool in flight.

I don't recall; did you ever try retarding your timing to see if that
helped?

On 12/9/2011 12:57 PM, Mark Magee wrote: 

Plane flying. Getting hot. I posted a month ago about my over temp issues.

Mark B. Magee 

Sent from IPhone 4


On Dec 9, 2011, at 12:53 PM, Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com> wrote:

I think a better benefit would be as an octane booster.  Perhaps you would
even be able to run mogas in your IO540.

It's all theoretical at this point, whether it's in a Velocity or racer.
How practical would it be?  Perhaps its best to play with water injection
after you are flying the plane?

On 12/8/2011 8:13 PM, Mark Magee wrote: 

All,
I am pondering whether it is worth considering installing a computer
controlled water/ water/methanol injector on my IO540 angle valve purely for
CHT reduction. I have used them in the past in autos with good effect, and
studied their uses in other applications. The numbers these
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/Naturally-Aspirated-Kits/c25/index.ht
ml folks post are in line with what water injectors can achieve from my past
experience. Anyone used one on a Velocity/Canard/Flying aircraft?
>From my initial calculations less than 2 gallons of water would climb a WOT
300 HP Velocity from sea level to over 12,000 MSL and then wouldn't be
needed for descent in all liklihood. So a 6 gallon tank (in the keel?) would
easily handle a long cross country. In cold weather 50/50 water methanol I
would think preclude induction icing, but you could always just turn it off
it it was cold enough and you didn't need it.
Just a thought, I am experimental :)
They were OEM on turboed and supercharged aircraft in WWII. Thoughts?

Mark Magee
N34XL XL FG 300HP
Brady TX 





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