REFLECTOR: Water Injection

Sat Dec 10 10:15:36 CST 2011

Well, I'm not actually planning on using any type of water cooling.  
It's a mental exercise debating why it wouldn't work for crankcase 
injection.

On 12/09/2011 06:49 PM, Laurence Coen wrote:
> Brian,
> May I suggest that you spray the water on the outside of the oil 
> cooler and get the same cooling effect without the worry of 
> contaminating the oil or internal engine corrosion.
> Larry Coen
> N136LC
>
> *From:* Brian Michalk <mailto:michalk at awpi.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, December 09, 2011 5:43 PM
> *To:* Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list 
> <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: Water Injection
>
> It never sees the crankcase, but it does see the cylinder walls, 
> piston tops and induction system along the way.
> If there is no worry about corrosion of those parts, then why would 
> there be a worry with crankcase injection?
> This assumes water injection into the crankcase never allows water to 
> accumulate, only flash to vapor.
>
> In the end, it may be a moot point.  Injection in the intake system 
> will cool the pistons, bringing down oil temps with it.  However, it 
> is an interesting idea.
>
> If one were sitting in 110F weather, waiting for takeoff, with the oil 
> temps climbing, I wonder how much water injection to the intake 
> manifold would cool the oil?
>
> On 12/09/2011 04:51 PM, Grover McNair wrote:
>>
>> In a water injection system, water is injected into the air going 
>> into the intake usually ahead of the throttle body. It is vaporized 
>> thus cooling the intake charge. The vaporized water passes through 
>> the combustion chamber and out the exhaust. The crank case never sees 
>> an appreciable amount of water. This is fairly common on turbocharged 
>> high performance automotive engines.
>>
>> Grover McNair
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:*reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] 
>> *On Behalf Of *Brian Michalk
>> *Sent:* Friday, December 09, 2011 2:13 PM
>> *To:* Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: Water Injection
>>
>> Ah.  In that case, I think it's a really cool idea.
>>
>> I actually have another idea that is very risky, bordering on the 
>> insane, that would be used to cool oil temperatures.
>>
>> During the normal combustion of fuel, the byproducts are CO2 and 
>> water.  Now, a portion of that water makes it into our oil, where it 
>> is boiled off when the engine reaches operating temperature.  So, if 
>> there's already water in the oil, how bad could it be to add a little 
>> bit more?
>>
>> The idea would be to have a really high pressure water injection 
>> system, let's say 2,000 PSI, with an atomizing nozzle that is able to 
>> deliver droplets in the micron range.  If this nozzle were installed 
>> to the crank cover (the Franklin has one) at the top of the engine, 
>> the water should never actually make contact with the engine oil.  It 
>> should instantly flash to vapor, consuming heat in the process, and 
>> then get ejected out the crankcase ventilating tube.  I suppose an 
>> alternate solution would be a cover specially made into a water 
>> jacket that sacrifices water boiling to the atmosphere, allowing the 
>> heat to be removed that way.
>>
>> Actually, now that I think about it compared to conventional water 
>> injection, it's probably no more hazardous than squirting it into the 
>> hot side of the cylinder.  In my case, it would be nice to be able to 
>> sit on the taxiway without having to worry about overheating before 
>> takeoff.  For your case, you need it to cool in flight.
>>
>> I don't recall; did you ever try retarding your timing to see if that 
>> helped?
>>
>> On 12/9/2011 12:57 PM, Mark Magee wrote:
>>
>> Plane flying. Getting hot. I posted a month ago about my over temp 
>> issues.
>>
>> Mark B. Magee
>>
>> Sent from IPhone 4
>>
>>
>> On Dec 9, 2011, at 12:53 PM, Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com 
>> <mailto:michalk at awpi.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think a better benefit would be as an octane booster.  Perhaps you 
>>> would even be able to run mogas in your IO540.
>>>
>>> It's all theoretical at this point, whether it's in a Velocity or 
>>> racer.  How practical would it be?  Perhaps its best to play with 
>>> water injection after you are flying the plane?
>>>
>>> On 12/8/2011 8:13 PM, Mark Magee wrote:
>>>
>>> All,
>>> I am pondering whether it is worth considering installing a computer 
>>> controlled water/ water/methanol injector on my IO540 angle valve 
>>> purely for CHT reduction. I have used them in the past in autos with 
>>> good effect, and studied their uses in other applications. The 
>>> numbers these 
>>> http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/Naturally-Aspirated-Kits/c25/index.html 
>>> folks post are in line with what water injectors can achieve from my 
>>> past experience. Anyone used one on a Velocity/Canard/Flying aircraft?
>>> >From my initial calculations less than 2 gallons of water would 
>>> climb a WOT 300 HP Velocity from sea level to over 12,000 MSL and 
>>> then wouldn't be needed for descent in all liklihood. So a 6 gallon 
>>> tank (in the keel?) would easily handle a long cross country. In 
>>> cold weather 50/50 water methanol I would think preclude induction 
>>> icing, but you could always just turn it off it it was cold enough 
>>> and you didn't need it.
>>> Just a thought, I am experimental :)
>>> They were OEM on turboed and supercharged aircraft in WWII. Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Mark Magee
>>> N34XL XL FG 300HP
>>> Brady TX
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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