REFLECTOR: Water Injection

Fri Dec 9 18:49:04 CST 2011

Brian,

May I suggest that you spray the water on the outside of the oil cooler and get the same cooling effect without the worry of contaminating the oil or internal engine corrosion.

Larry Coen
N136LC

From: Brian Michalk 
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 5:43 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list 
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Water Injection

It never sees the crankcase, but it does see the cylinder walls, piston tops and induction system along the way.
If there is no worry about corrosion of those parts, then why would there be a worry with crankcase injection?
This assumes water injection into the crankcase never allows water to accumulate, only flash to vapor.

In the end, it may be a moot point.  Injection in the intake system will cool the pistons, bringing down oil temps with it.  However, it is an interesting idea.

If one were sitting in 110F weather, waiting for takeoff, with the oil temps climbing, I wonder how much water injection to the intake manifold would cool the oil?

On 12/09/2011 04:51 PM, Grover McNair wrote: 
  In a water injection system, water is injected into the air going into the intake usually ahead of the throttle body. It is vaporized thus cooling the intake charge. The vaporized water passes through the combustion chamber and out the exhaust. The crank case never sees an appreciable amount of water. This is fairly common on turbocharged high performance automotive engines.

  Grover McNair

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  From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Brian Michalk
  Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 2:13 PM
  To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
  Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Water Injection

  Ah.  In that case, I think it's a really cool idea.

  I actually have another idea that is very risky, bordering on the insane, that would be used to cool oil temperatures.

  During the normal combustion of fuel, the byproducts are CO2 and water.  Now, a portion of that water makes it into our oil, where it is boiled off when the engine reaches operating temperature.  So, if there's already water in the oil, how bad could it be to add a little bit more?

  The idea would be to have a really high pressure water injection system, let's say 2,000 PSI, with an atomizing nozzle that is able to deliver droplets in the micron range.  If this nozzle were installed to the crank cover (the Franklin has one) at the top of the engine, the water should never actually make contact with the engine oil.  It should instantly flash to vapor, consuming heat in the process, and then get ejected out the crankcase ventilating tube.  I suppose an alternate solution would be a cover specially made into a water jacket that sacrifices water boiling to the atmosphere, allowing the heat to be removed that way.

  Actually, now that I think about it compared to conventional water injection, it's probably no more hazardous than squirting it into the hot side of the cylinder.  In my case, it would be nice to be able to sit on the taxiway without having to worry about overheating before takeoff.  For your case, you need it to cool in flight.

  I don't recall; did you ever try retarding your timing to see if that helped?

  On 12/9/2011 12:57 PM, Mark Magee wrote: 

  Plane flying. Getting hot. I posted a month ago about my over temp issues.

  Mark B. Magee 

  Sent from IPhone 4

  On Dec 9, 2011, at 12:53 PM, Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com> wrote:

    I think a better benefit would be as an octane booster.  Perhaps you would even be able to run mogas in your IO540.

    It's all theoretical at this point, whether it's in a Velocity or racer.  How practical would it be?  Perhaps its best to play with water injection after you are flying the plane?

    On 12/8/2011 8:13 PM, Mark Magee wrote: 

    All,
    I am pondering whether it is worth considering installing a computer controlled water/ water/methanol injector on my IO540 angle valve purely for CHT reduction. I have used them in the past in autos with good effect, and studied their uses in other applications. The numbers these http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/Naturally-Aspirated-Kits/c25/index.html folks post are in line with what water injectors can achieve from my past experience. Anyone used one on a Velocity/Canard/Flying aircraft?
    >From my initial calculations less than 2 gallons of water would climb a WOT 300 HP Velocity from sea level to over 12,000 MSL and then wouldn't be needed for descent in all liklihood. So a 6 gallon tank (in the keel?) would easily handle a long cross country. In cold weather 50/50 water methanol I would think preclude induction icing, but you could always just turn it off it it was cold enough and you didn't need it.
    Just a thought, I am experimental :)
    They were OEM on turboed and supercharged aircraft in WWII. Thoughts?

    Mark Magee
    N34XL XL FG 300HP
    Brady TX 

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