REFLECTOR: Dynon vs. Grand Rapids (Dave Nelson)
Scott Baker
scottb33333 at gmail.com
Wed Apr 13 16:57:55 CDT 2011
The underlying question regarding Dynon and/or/versus Grand Rapids is, "Can I trust this equipment to give me rock solid reliable and accurate navigational information in IFR/IMC circumstances?" In other words, would you trust your life with Dynon or Grand Rapids equipment shooting an approach to 200 and 1/2?
Scott B.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave T Nelson
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 4:13 PM
Subject: REFLECTOR: Dynon vs. Grand Rapids (Dave Nelson)
My two cents....
I've been flying behind a D10A for about 5 years now, and, more recently, a EMS-D10 engine monitor. I've had good luck in dealing with the company, with one key exception... don't go looking for any changes, even simple ones, in existing products.
After installing the EMS-D10 I was really shocked to discover that the fuel totalizer is nearly useless if you don't have either resistive or capacitive probes installed. Every other engine monitor I've ever used would simply allow the user to enter the amount of fuel onboard as a starting point, and simply count down from there. After discussing this oversight with the Dynon team at Oshkosh, and via subsequent emails, it became clear they simply weren't interested in correcting this design issue.
In another case, I suggested a simple modification to the D10A firmware that would allow, based on a preprogrammed airspeed and a gear unsafe signal, a flashing & audible gear warning. This could also use RPM or manifold pressure as a warning criteria. It's a simple idea, and it's implemented in many competitive boxes. Again, I was clearly told that it wasn't going to be implemented.
In fairness, Dynon is a small shop, and they've got to focus their engineering & firmware skills on development of new products. Also, obviously, their target market is RVs, and not us. And finally, overall, they are easy to deal with and they do try to be helpful. However, my warning stands... the functionality you buy on day one is pretty likely to be what you've got until end of the product's life... at least in my experience.
Dave
STD-RG N22DN... should hit 1000 hours this year...
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Dynon vs Grand Rapids (Peter Braswell)
2. Re: Dynon vs Grand Rapids (Lawrence Epstein)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 13:56:03 -0400
From: Peter Braswell <peter.braswell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Dynon vs Grand Rapids
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik9xToPQiAduhekBp2XEqW_WBsRKg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Sorry Larry, misunderstood.
Let me confirm my understanding but here's my take on the servos:
The servos are almost identical in terms of the dimensions and function but
the internals are completely incompatible, thus I'm *almost* certain that
Dynon won't talk to the TT system or the TT servos ... e.g. I don't think
you'll get A/P information displayed on the Dynon if you use the TT A/P.
I'll email you off list to confirm, but I'm 90% sure on this.
Peter
--------------------------------------------------------------
Check out:
*"It's a Jungle Up There": www.zuluworks.com*
*Selling your Airplane?* : www.fly-mart.com
*Great Aviation Gear: www.sky-gadgets.com*
My blog: www.icekreamkoan.com
--------------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Lawrence Epstein <ljepstein at hotmail.com>wrote:
> Not the question.
> I would use TruTrak autopilot with their servos. Will the Dynon display the
> autopilot status and will the heading bug/cdi talk to the TruTrak?
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 1:07 PM, Peter Braswell <peter.braswell at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi Larry,
>> No - Dynon only interfaces with Dynon servos.
>>
>> Peter
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out:
>> *"It's a Jungle Up There": www.zuluworks.com*
>> *Selling your Airplane?* : www.fly-mart.com
>> *Great Aviation Gear: www.sky-gadgets.com*
>> My blog: www.icekreamkoan.com
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Lawrence Epstein <ljepstein at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Will the Dynon interface with other autopilots (TruTrak)? I plan to
>>> install the TruTrak, no matter which EFIS I pick. This give a
>>> independent/3rd attitude source and ( think it is much more capable than
>>> either companies' product.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Peter Braswell <
>>> peter.braswell at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Larry,
>>>>
>>>> Full disclosure: I'm a Dynon Dealer but I wasn't before I bought my SV
>>>> system. I am a disgruntled BMA guy. :)
>>>>
>>>> My other plane is a Glastar and I installed a SV system in it last July
>>>> after the BMA went Tango Uniform on me. I was delighted with the system and
>>>> the company and I embarked on opening up a small business and becoming a
>>>> dealer.
>>>>
>>>> I've got a 7" system with an autopilot interfacing my SL30. Not
>>>> hardcore IFR but not bad. The SV system has 5 serial ports available and
>>>> will interface just about anything that puts out a NEMA or compatible
>>>> digital serial signal.
>>>>
>>>> With the price and with a interface to an IFR nav device, it's pretty
>>>> hard to beat the SV. Add a GNS-430 and the ARNIC 429 interface and you'll
>>>> get VNAV and all the IFR/GPS goodness you could possibly want.
>>>>
>>>> I've got my system backed up by a Dynon D10A. The autopilot,
>>>> installation and performance have been absolutely wonderful.
>>>>
>>>> Possible cons: Dynon's software is a little immature with regard to
>>>> features (not reliability). It does have moving map, synthetic vision and
>>>> most of the other stuff you'd want. It DOES NOT have multiple way points
>>>> and it does not display ETA/ETE information - although this is on the
>>>> software release roadmap and they seem to be releasing software 2-3 times
>>>> per year.
>>>>
>>>> They also have a MUCH larger install base than the other guys by far
>>>> which means there's more eyeballs looking at the system and reporting
>>>> issues. Support is first rate also.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Check out:
>>>> *"It's a Jungle Up There": www.zuluworks.com*
>>>> *Selling your Airplane?* : www.fly-mart.com
>>>> *Great Aviation Gear: www.sky-gadgets.com*
>>>> My blog: www.icekreamkoan.com
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 11:01 AM, Lawrence Epstein <
>>>> ljepstein at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Anybody flying behind the Dynon Skyview?
>>>>>
>>>>> I had pretty much settled on the Grand Rapids, because of a perceived
>>>>> superiority for IFR operations, but the Skyview is considerably less
>>>>> expensive than a comparable GRI system for IFR and you can have a Mode S
>>>>> transponder, all for about $2000 less than the GRI alone.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be helpful to hear from someone flying either system, IFR.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Larry Epstein
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> To change your email address, visit
>>>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>>>
>>>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>>>> Check old archives:
>>>>> http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> To change your email address, visit
>>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>>
>>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> To change your email address, visit
>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>
>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>
>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
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> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 14:05:42 -0400
From: Lawrence Epstein <ljepstein at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Dynon vs Grand Rapids
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP566FA11783C7685CFDF791B9AA0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thanks
On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 1:56 PM, Peter Braswell <peter.braswell at gmail.com>wrote:
> Sorry Larry, misunderstood.
>
> Let me confirm my understanding but here's my take on the servos:
>
> The servos are almost identical in terms of the dimensions and function but
> the internals are completely incompatible, thus I'm *almost* certain that
> Dynon won't talk to the TT system or the TT servos ... e.g. I don't think
> you'll get A/P information displayed on the Dynon if you use the TT A/P.
>
> I'll email you off list to confirm, but I'm 90% sure on this.
>
> Peter
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out:
> *"It's a Jungle Up There": www.zuluworks.com*
> *Selling your Airplane?* : www.fly-mart.com
> *Great Aviation Gear: www.sky-gadgets.com*
> My blog: www.icekreamkoan.com
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Lawrence Epstein <ljepstein at hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Not the question.
>> I would use TruTrak autopilot with their servos. Will the Dynon display
>> the autopilot status and will the heading bug/cdi talk to the TruTrak?
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 1:07 PM, Peter Braswell <peter.braswell at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Larry,
>>> No - Dynon only interfaces with Dynon servos.
>>>
>>> Peter
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out:
>>> *"It's a Jungle Up There": www.zuluworks.com*
>>> *Selling your Airplane?* : www.fly-mart.com
>>> *Great Aviation Gear: www.sky-gadgets.com*
>>> My blog: www.icekreamkoan.com
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Lawrence Epstein <ljepstein at hotmail.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Will the Dynon interface with other autopilots (TruTrak)? I plan to
>>>> install the TruTrak, no matter which EFIS I pick. This give a
>>>> independent/3rd attitude source and ( think it is much more capable than
>>>> either companies' product.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Peter Braswell <
>>>> peter.braswell at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Larry,
>>>>>
>>>>> Full disclosure: I'm a Dynon Dealer but I wasn't before I bought my SV
>>>>> system. I am a disgruntled BMA guy. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> My other plane is a Glastar and I installed a SV system in it last July
>>>>> after the BMA went Tango Uniform on me. I was delighted with the system and
>>>>> the company and I embarked on opening up a small business and becoming a
>>>>> dealer.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've got a 7" system with an autopilot interfacing my SL30. Not
>>>>> hardcore IFR but not bad. The SV system has 5 serial ports available and
>>>>> will interface just about anything that puts out a NEMA or compatible
>>>>> digital serial signal.
>>>>>
>>>>> With the price and with a interface to an IFR nav device, it's pretty
>>>>> hard to beat the SV. Add a GNS-430 and the ARNIC 429 interface and you'll
>>>>> get VNAV and all the IFR/GPS goodness you could possibly want.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've got my system backed up by a Dynon D10A. The autopilot,
>>>>> installation and performance have been absolutely wonderful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Possible cons: Dynon's software is a little immature with regard to
>>>>> features (not reliability). It does have moving map, synthetic vision and
>>>>> most of the other stuff you'd want. It DOES NOT have multiple way points
>>>>> and it does not display ETA/ETE information - although this is on the
>>>>> software release roadmap and they seem to be releasing software 2-3 times
>>>>> per year.
>>>>>
>>>>> They also have a MUCH larger install base than the other guys by far
>>>>> which means there's more eyeballs looking at the system and reporting
>>>>> issues. Support is first rate also.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>>> Peter
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Check out:
>>>>> *"It's a Jungle Up There": www.zuluworks.com*
>>>>> *Selling your Airplane?* : www.fly-mart.com
>>>>> *Great Aviation Gear: www.sky-gadgets.com*
>>>>> My blog: www.icekreamkoan.com
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 11:01 AM, Lawrence Epstein <
>>>>> ljepstein at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Anybody flying behind the Dynon Skyview?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had pretty much settled on the Grand Rapids, because of a perceived
>>>>>> superiority for IFR operations, but the Skyview is considerably less
>>>>>> expensive than a comparable GRI system for IFR and you can have a Mode S
>>>>>> transponder, all for about $2000 less than the GRI alone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would be helpful to hear from someone flying either system, IFR.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Larry Epstein
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> To change your email address, visit
>>>>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>>>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>>>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>>>>> Check old archives:
>>>>>> http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> To change your email address, visit
>>>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>>>
>>>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>>>> Check old archives:
>>>>> http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> To change your email address, visit
>>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>>
>>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> To change your email address, visit
>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>
>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>
>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
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