REFLECTOR: Auto engine installed 172

Fri Nov 12 07:45:06 CST 2010

Long stroke engines loose more combustion energy heating up the cylinder
bore, if the engine is air cooled, then the loss can be pretty significant
since there is no control of the cooling other than by design of the cooling
fins and possibly cowl flaps. Also, air cooled engines have to be built with
more tolerance between the cylinders and pistons which is whey there is more
blow by and oil consumption. I am not sure how that all adds up for current
production aircraft engines, but generally, it would make the designs less
fuel efficient under most operating envelopes than short stroke water cooled
engines- possibly the Franklyn numbers are during a controlled test where
the engine is not trying to overcome -10 F cooling air? Not sure, but food
for thought.

  _____  

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Brian Michalk
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 7:56 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Auto engine installed 172

Wikipedia says the Prius THS II engine is 37% efficient.
The Volkswagen 3.3L TDI engine is 41.1% efficient which they are showing as
a SFC of .33, which is a little better than my Franklin.

So, that Prius engine is pretty small and doesn't get better than the TDI
engine.  Why didn't they use a TDI engine instead?

My guess is weight, and power requirements.

On 11/11/2010 04:06 PM, Scott Derrick wrote: 

I don't know.....

These new small cylinder high rpm car engines are extremely efficient.
Amazing mileage.  

Why aren't they running single or two cylinder large bore engines instead of
small bore 4 and 6 cylinder, if bigger was more efficient? 

Scott

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Auto engine installed 172
From: Andy Millin  <mailto:amillin at sbcglobal.net> <amillin at sbcglobal.net>
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
<mailto:reflector at tvbf.org> <reflector at tvbf.org>
Date: 11/11/2010 02:01 PM

The faster you turn something the more energy it eats.  I think it is one of
those it takes 4x the energy to spin it 2x faster things.

More RPM - more power, but you sacrifice efficiency as the RPM climbs.

Andy

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Scott Derrick
Sent: 11-11-2010 12:26
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Auto engine installed 172

Brian,

    Why does large cylinder, slow RPM make for a better BSFC?  The slow rpm
makes a bit of sense because you have more time to burn...

Scott 

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Auto engine installed 172
From: Brian Michalk  <mailto:michalk at awpi.com> <michalk at awpi.com>
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list  <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org>
<reflector at tvbf.org>
Date: 11/11/2010 09:54 AM

  I have not been able to find a solid number, from what I can tell on the
net, the LS3 engine runs at a best BSFC of around .45.

I believe most aircraft engines run in the .36 to .40 range.

The website claims 2x better, when the LS3 is not even as efficient.

I like auto engines and everything, but their smaller cylinders and higher
RPM's are going to make it extremely difficult to get better BSFC numbers
than large bore, slow RPM engines.

On 11/11/2010 10:35 AM, Andy Millin wrote: 

Hey Bob,

I didn't write that very well.  I did not think you were associated with him
or were doing any marketing for him.  It was referring to what he had
written on his page.

Andy

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Bob Jackson (Jax Tech)
Sent: 11-10-2010 7:18
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Auto engine installed 172

Hello Andy,

The thing is that most private pilots don't run LOP or use an electronic
ignition, so an auto conversion has a natural advantage over standard issue
aircraft engines in that regard.  I agree that many of us are milking about
everything we can out of aircraft engines, and that aircraft engines can be
extremely efficient and durable.  The primary auto technology that is still
hard to benefit from on the aircraft side -- I know of no one offering one,
especially to homebuilders -- is electronic ignition.

But -- I didn't mean to imply that I had ANY business or marketing
connection with Mr. Aden.  I actually know very little about what he has,
how it operates, or what his STC plans are.  I like my TNIO-550N!   I
certainly have no marketing involvement -- I was simply saying that Al is an
interesting and talented guy who happens to be near by.

Maybe I did Al (and the Reflector) a dis-service by saying anything at all.
Al, I'm sure, has no idea it's even been posted on our discussion board.  I
don't want to discourage anyone posting their thoughts, comments, criticisms
or suggestions on his auto conversion ideas.  It's always helpful to anyone
who's developing new stuff to hear the ideas, concerns and issues of other
homebuilders.  What a service the Reflector provides to us in that regard!

Bob

  _____  

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Andy Millin
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 9:46 AM
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Auto engine installed 172

Hey Bob,

I'm sure he is a nice guy and he is doing good work.  I am leery of anyone
that claims their engine will use half the fuel.  I have yet to see an auto
conversion that has a better BSFC than an aircraft engine.  Especially when
an electronic ignition is added and an EIS is used to run LOP.

I know you have to toot your own horn for marketing, but.  it would be nice
to see a new engine developer under promise and over deliver (or just
deliver).

I do wish him the best of luck.

Andy

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Bob Jackson
Sent: 11-09-2010 9:01
To: 'Velocity'; 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Auto engine installed 172

Al Aden and his Quiet Aviation company are located at the Orlando Apopka
airport, just a few hangars away from us.  Al's a good guy, knows what he's
doing, and I believe he will have his STC approved for this engine on C172's
by next summer.

Bob Jackson

N2XF

Orlando Apopka Airport (X04)

  _____  

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Velocity
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 5:23 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: REFLECTOR: Auto engine installed 172

http://www.quietaviation.com/

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