REFLECTOR: Making Velocities easier to build?
Al Gietzen
ALVentures at cox.net
Thu Oct 1 02:15:29 CDT 2009
Kurt;
Not to 'pile on' but you're not alone. And this may not be the venue for it,
but it needs to get their attention. When I was building my kit that I got
way back in Dec. '96, there were so many parts that I had to re-work, or
exchange, that the list is too long to type. My over-riding question was
"Don't they have any sort of QC (quality control) procedures?"
I assumed it was just the timing of my kit, and that things improved later.
Perhaps they did. But if so, they have regressed somewhat. I just completed
replacement of the pilot side door. It took longer than I expected (of
course); not only because it was more work than I thought, but because of
delays in getting the correct parts. Velocity sells a 'door kit' (yeah,
even Ken was surprised); so on June 3rd I ordered a pilot side door kit. Of
course that doesn't mean they have the parts, it just has a price. It took
a month to get, and it came without the window; without the outside door
handle, without the door seal, with a inside door handle for the co-pilot
side, and with latch rods that had not been drilled and tapped for
connection of the steel latch pins.
I was then given various numbers of weeks for the various parts, but the
correct inside door handle would be shipped right away. Except when it came
it was the latch plate, which I already had, and not the handle. When I got
the outside handle weeks later, the hole in the handle shaft was drilled at
a bit of wrong angle - OK, I was going to cut and reposition the handle
anyway, but after installing it I found the hole was also too big for the
3/16" bolt used to connect it to the latch plate and the inside handle.
I'll have to shim it to get rid of the play. I did eventually get all the
parts, the last arrived the first week in Sept.
I'm sure things are tight there like everywhere else; and there is minimum
staff to do all the jobs. I also understand that they may not stock extras
of all the parts; it seems everybody keeps minimum inventory. But I still
have the same question - Is there no kind of QC program?
Al
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of nmflyer1 at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:29 PM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Making Velocities easier to build?
I really try to be patient, but perhaps my carreer field prohibits that. How
about making parts that are true & correct? That may surely make things
easier and faster, without changing the build ratio of parts! Twice I have
received incorrect nose gears! I have been waiting for a simple answer on
the next step on my own nose gear since Velocity signed for the part last
Friday. Still no answer. I could bring up the rest of the problems I have
had if you like.
I have a pretty simple rule in my life, that is do not expect more from
others than you are willing to do yourself. If I did my business like this,
there would be dead people scattered all over the country. So please, do
things correct, have a GOOD quality control program, and when an obvious
defect shows up Address it!
Feel free to justify why I have to pay over and over again for defective
parts, shipping and poor service.
Kurt Winker
505-610-3676
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Baker <sbakr at comcast.net>
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Wed, Sep 30, 2009 6:53 pm
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Making Velocities easier to build?
I think that pioneering Velocity kit builders will testify that many changes
have taken=2 0place over the history of the company. Kits today are much
easier and quicker to build then ever before. The redesign of parts has
taken an evolutionary process, rather than a wholesale re-make of the way
the aircraft go together.
The 51% compliance rule that pertains to Experimental Amateur Built aircraft
definately influences what a kit company can and cannot do. Regional FAA
offices (MIDO and/or FSDO) often apply different interpretations to the same
set of rules that are established by the FAA for our industry. The Seattle
office, for instance, agrees with the concept of a 2-weeks to taxi program,
while the Orlando office flatly refuses to accept something of this sort.
Much mention has been made to the FAA's reorganization of the "51% Rule".
14-months ago at Oshkosh I met with Frank Paskiewicz, the FAA's "top dog"
with regards to FAA licensing of aircraft in the Experimental airworthiness
catagory. Paskiewicz promised to "level the playing field" for all kit
manufacturers across the country - meaning we will all soon be following the
same set of rules. The FAA is most definately working on this task; and in
fact, Velocity has a meeting scheduled next month with the FAA National Kit
Evaluation Team (NKET) for an interactive session and study of how composite
airframes blend into FAA's new way of looking at the 51% compliance rules.
We've yet to see exactly what the FAA has in mind. Getting=2 0back to
Paskiewicz and the promise of a "level playing field", this could mean that
all aircraft companies will be able to organize a rapid build kit like Epic
and Glasair - or - everyone might be going back to making aircraft doing
things the "hard way". Still, the FAA understands that the more components
and sub-assemblies a factory provides, generally speaking, quality and
safety performance is better than if a true amatuer were doing the work in a
home/workshop environment. Regardless, the Velocity Standard and XL kits,
in their present form and including fastbuild options, are grandfathered as
"compliant" with the FAA's 51% rule. We are optimistic that the FAA will
embrace the idea of more factory made parts and sub-assemblies.
Scott B
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:Reiff at Lorenz.com> Reiff Lorenz
To: <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org> reflector at tvbf.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 5:12 PM
Subject: REFLECTOR: Making Velocities easier to build?
I downloaded the November issue of Kitplanes an came across this quote by
the CEO of Velocity on page 33. It was in response to the question: How has
the homebuilt aircraft industry changed over the last 25 years?
====================
In our business, the time it takes to
build an airplane is critical. The FAA
has allowed certain conditions to exist
now where a builder can come to the factory
and pay for professional assistance
from factory-trained staff. That cuts the
time the builder must spend building
to a fraction of what it used to be, and
that is the most significant change we've
had in the industry. The builder gets
enough experience building to maintain
the aircraft safely and apply, legally, for
the Repairman's Certificate, and he/she
gets an airplane that has been built to
factory quality specifications. That's a
monumental change.
It will be a benefit to any manufacturers
that can afford to set up this kind of
builders assistance program. We estimate
for Velocity it will cost upwards of
$200,000 to set up the program, because
presently the parts we make are designed
where the builder must build 51% of the
airplane using time as the measurement;
now we will go back and modify every
mold that we have so that no longer does
the builder have to do something with
those parts. They will be molded such
that the labor for the builder decreases.
It will be more expensive, but someone
who can afford [a $300,000 project]
does not have a lot of time to build, and
will see this as an attractive program.
Velocity CEO Duane Swing
===================
He seems to be talking about changes ahead for the Velocity builder who
wants to assemble an aircraft but not fabricate as many components. Anybody
heard of the program that he mentions setting up? This seems to run contrary
to what the FAA has been saying in their recent review of the 51% rule. I'd
love to hear all your opinions.
Reiff Lorenz
Velocity builder wanna-be
(hoping to hit the lottery for $300,000)
_____
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