REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 61- Canard pitch change
Mark Riley
the_rileys1 at verizon.net
Thu Nov 19 18:54:30 CST 2009
I thought it was going to be a big deal, but it wasn't. I traced a Sharpie
line along the fuselage under the forward half of the canard, took the
canard off and used a dremel with a sanding drum (didn't have air tools for
the first build) to take it down to the line. Then I put the canard back on
and used a coarse permagrit strip to slide under the forward half of the
canard to get the contour right until I could just get a popsicle stick
under where the aft part of the canard met the fuselage.
I used a zip lock baggie with micro to squeeze in to fill the gap, neatened
up with a squared off and sharpened popsicle stick followed by alcohol and
let it cure. For the smaller attach points on top of the canard, rough up
the surface where the bolt goes through, pack the hole with micro, add a
couple layers of glass, then redrill when hard. Take the canard off, remove
duct tape and you are good to go.
Remember, the maximum thickness of the filled area was one popsicle stick,
trailing back to nothing at mid canard. I left the popsicle sticks in and
didn't even repaint. It's under the canard and almost invisible. Believe me,
I had a NICE paint job and was very finicky. You just couldn't see it.
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of reflector-request at tvbf.org
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 6:25 PM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 61
Send Reflector mailing list submissions to
reflector at tvbf.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 51- Pitch trim problem
(Scott Derrick)
2. Re: Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 59 (Mark Riley)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:54:06 -0700
From: Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 51- Pitch trim
problem
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <4B05944E.8060204 at tnstaafl.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Changing the canard's angle of attack to a finished airplane sounds like
a whole lot more than 2 hours! Maybe 20 hours. Not counting finish and
paint.
Scott
Douglas Holub wrote:
> Did you change the angle of the pad where the canard tabs bolt to the
> bulkhead?
>
> Doug Holub
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Riley" <the_rileys1 at verizon.net>
> To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 5:51 PM
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 66,Issue 51- Pitch trim
> problem
>
>
>> On my first plane, a standard RG, I ran out of nose down pitch trim
>> at about
>> 160 knots. The fix recommended by Scott Swing was to reduce the canard
>> incidence by relieving the area forward of the bulkhead, shimming the
>> trailing edge by one popsicle stick at the trailing edge and filling the
>> fuselage with micro to fill the gap. This completely solved my
>> problem with
>> only about 2 hours of work.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
>> Behalf Of reflector-request at tvbf.org
>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 6:16 PM
>> To: reflector at tvbf.org
>> Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 51
>>
>> Send Reflector mailing list submissions to
>> reflector at tvbf.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> reflector-request at tvbf.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> reflector-owner at tvbf.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Reflector digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Not enough Trim authority (Scott Derrick)
>> 2. Re: Not enough Trim authority (aminetech at bluefrog.com)
>> 3. Re: Not enough Trim authority (Douglas Holub)
>> 4. Re: Not enough Trim authority (Douglas Holub)
>> 5. Re: Not enough Trim authority ( Brett Ferrell )
>> 6. Rubber stamps (velocityxlfg)
>> 7. Re: Not enough Trim authority (Jack Prock)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:03:36 -0700
>> From: Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net>
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Message-ID: <4B01BE28.90003 at tnstaafl.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> I was flying today after my latest change to the cooling system, oil and
>> cylinders. Not quite right but much much better. Oil stayed around 185
>> when at 50%, came up to 205 after 10 minutes of full throttle, I was
>> about 150 ROP. It was settling in at 175-180 KIAS at 10,500, turning
>> 2600 rpm. Still have one cylinder running 45 degrees hotter than
>> everybody else. I'm going to swap sensors and make sure that isn't the
>> problem.
>>
>> I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
>> for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
>> using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
>> wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
>> plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
>> the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
>> I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
>> so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
>> over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
>> I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
>>
>> In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
>> factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
>> authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
>> with a stronger spring.
>>
>> What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
>> factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
>> io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
>>
>> Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:48:35 -0800
>> From: <aminetech at bluefrog.com>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Message-ID: <20091116134835.6F366CDC at resin17.mta.everyone.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> Scott,
>>
>> Before I reversed the sparrow strainer, my pitch trim ran out at 155-160
>> kias. I recall that you tried reversing it and didn't have enough
>> trim up
>> for approach. Perhaps no strainer at all would be a happy medium
>> that would
>> work for you.
>>
>> John
>>
>> --- scott at tnstaafl.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
>> for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
>> using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
>> wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
>> plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
>> the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
>> I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
>> so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
>> over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
>> I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
>>
>> In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
>> factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
>> authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
>> with a stronger spring.
>>
>> What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
>> factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
>> io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
>>
>> Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>
>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:58:12 -0600
>> From: "Douglas Holub" <douglas.holub at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Message-ID: <6251165E69814FC482B2CF394F31E176 at Workshop>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> I've got an IOX-360, but your trim sounds just like mine. With two
>> people in
>>
>> the front I don't have enough up trim to land, and with just me in
>> the front
>>
>> I don't have enough down trim when I'm flying faster than 160 kts.
>> When I
>> take the canard off for the condition inspection in February I'll
>> beef up
>> the factory trim spring. The problem with that, though, is that the trim
>> will be even touchier with a stiffer spring. Has anybody ever
>> installed two
>> sparrow strainers? Or maybe I could just double the size of the
>> airfoil on
>> the one I've got.
>>
>> Doug Holub
>> Standard FG
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:03 PM
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>>
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> To change your email address, visit
>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>
>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:09:04 -0600
>> From: "Douglas Holub" <douglas.holub at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Message-ID: <83F14B236AB243038065BF4C78A7D2EA at Workshop>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> I can see how reversing the sparrow strainer would help the trim
>> range, but
>> my longitudinal stability wasn't very good before I installed the
>> sparrow
>> strainer. If I just let go of the stick, my altitude would oscillate
>> +/- 300
>>
>> feet. Now it's about half that. How is yours with the sparrow strainer
>> reversed?
>>
>> Doug
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <aminetech at bluefrog.com>
>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>>
>>
>>> Scott,
>>>
>>> Before I reversed the sparrow strainer, my pitch trim ran out at
>>> 155-160
>>> kias. I recall that you tried reversing it and didn't have enough
>>> trim up
>>
>>> for approach. Perhaps no strainer at all would be a happy medium that
>>> would work for you.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> --- scott at tnstaafl.net wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
>>> for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
>>> using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
>>> wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
>>> plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
>>> the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
>>> I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
>>> so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
>>> over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
>>> I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
>>>
>>> In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
>>> factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
>>> authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
>>> with a stronger spring.
>>>
>>> What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
>>> factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
>>> io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
>>>
>>> Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> To change your email address, visit
>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>
>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> To change your email address, visit
>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>
>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:47:46 -0500
>> From: " Brett Ferrell " <reflector at velocityxl.com>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Cc: scott at tnstaafl.net
>> Message-ID: <20091116224746.2611.qmail at s214.sureserver.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Scott,
>>
>> Nope, we didn't have enough authority either, and reverted back to the
>> factory system after trying the Strong system for several hours. We
>> worked
>> with Alex a bit to try and get more trim authority but decided to get
>> the
>> plane tested before we messed with the trim any more. I think Alex will
>> work with us to get a solution, but shortly after completing our 40
>> hours we
>> landed on a road, so we haven't gotten back to testing yet. ;-) I
>> hope to,
>> because it's a slick idea, we just need more trim than the current
>> solution
>> seems to offer, at least for our airplane (I know that Dave nelson is
>> quite
>> happy with his installation).
>>
>> Brett
>>
>>
>>> -------Original Message-------
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
>>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:03 PM
>>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>>>
>> I was flying today after my latest change to the cooling system, oil and
>> cylinders. Not quite right but much much better. Oil stayed around 185
>> when at 50%, came up to 205 after 10 minutes of full throttle, I was
>> about 150 ROP. It was settling in at 175-180 KIAS at 10,500, turning
>> 2600 rpm. Still have one cylinder running 45 degrees hotter than
>> everybody else. I'm going to swap sensors and make sure that isn't the
>> problem.
>>
>> I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
>> for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
>> using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
>> wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
>> plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
>> the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
>> I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
>> so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
>> over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
>> I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
>>
>> In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
>> factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
>> authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
>> with a stronger spring.
>>
>> What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
>> factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
>> io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
>>
>> Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:08:21 -0600
>> From: "velocityxlfg" <velocityxl at fastmail.fm>
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Rubber stamps
>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Message-ID: <6EFC31B8767A4A76B95ABFA9B00CF22D at ronPC>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Does any have a good outlet for getting rubber stamps to mark
>> Switches? I have found rubber stamps that I can use to make
>> lables for my switch panal that are 1/8 . I would like to find some
>> that are
>> 3/32 high
>> any on got a good place to get them? How else are you all
>> marking your switches?
>>
>> Ron
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
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>>
>> /attachment-0001.htm>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:18:16 -0800
>> From: "Jack Prock" <jackprock at comcast.net>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>> To: "Brett Ferrell" <reflector at velocityxl.com>, "Velocity Aircraft
>> Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Message-ID: <00fe01ca6713$13ed5180$c801a8c0 at jaxwindows>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm curious about what plane did you install the Strong trim system
>> in and
>> it didn't work? I'm still
>> building an XL, and have the Strong system installed. I'm not flying
>> yet, so
>> I'm now second
>> guessing my original decision.
>>
>> Jack
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Ferrell"
>> <reflector at velocityxl.com>
>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Cc: <scott at tnstaafl.net>
>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 2:47 PM
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>>
>>
>>> Scott,
>>>
>>> Nope, we didn't have enough authority either, and reverted back to the
>> factory system after trying the Strong system for several hours. We
>> worked
>> with Alex a bit to try and get more trim authority but decided to get
>> the
>> plane tested before we messed with the trim any more. I think Alex will
>> work with us to get a solution, but shortly after completing our 40
>> hours we
>> landed on a road, so we haven't gotten back to testing yet. ;-) I
>> hope to,
>> because it's a slick idea, we just need more trim than the current
>> solution
>> seems to offer, at least for our airplane (I know that Dave nelson is
>> quite
>> happy with his installation).
>>>
>>> Brett
>>>
>>>
>>> > -------Original Message-------
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
>>> > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list"
>>> <reflector at tvbf.org>
>>> > Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:03 PM
>>> > Subject: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>>> >
>>> I was flying today after my latest change to the cooling system, oil
>>> and
>>> cylinders. Not quite right but much much better. Oil stayed around 185
>>> when at 50%, came up to 205 after 10 minutes of full throttle, I was
>>> about 150 ROP. It was settling in at 175-180 KIAS at 10,500, turning
>>> 2600 rpm. Still have one cylinder running 45 degrees hotter than
>>> everybody else. I'm going to swap sensors and make sure that isn't
>>> the
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
>>> for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
>>> using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
>>> wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
>>> plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
>>> the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
>>> I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
>>> so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
>>> over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
>>> I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
>>>
>>> In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
>>> factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
>>> authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
>>> with a stronger spring.
>>>
>>> What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
>>> factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
>>> io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
>>>
>>> Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
>>>
>>> Scott
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> To change your email address, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>
>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>
>>
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.67/2506 - Release Date:
>> 11/16/09
>> 07:43:00
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>
>> End of Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 51
>> *****************************************
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>
>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:24:54 -0500
From: "Mark Riley" <the_rileys1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 59
To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <53CD6A7470A74C0D84C06C4636B0A0F3 at IBMA9C082DDBF2>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
John:
I don't recall a major change in either top speed or pitch buck speed. My
canard would never really stall, just a minor buffet and mush along.
I believe the factory likes the standard sparrow strainer installation for
safety reasons. My understanding is that the faster you go, the more it
tries to pitch up and this resists inadvertent speed excursions past VNE.
Inverting it would help with trim range, but would lose this safety feature.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of reflector-request at tvbf.org
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:31 AM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 59
Send Reflector mailing list submissions to
reflector at tvbf.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
reflector-request at tvbf.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
reflector-owner at tvbf.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Reflector digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: New Nose Gear (RG (Dennis Martin)
2. Re: New Nose Gear (RG (Andy Millin)
3. Re: Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 51- Pitch trim problem
(aminetech at bluefrog.com)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:36:27 -0700
From: Dennis Martin <dennis.doc at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: New Nose Gear (RG
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID:
<638df660911181836r59634404v368953652c59d66e at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I installed my new nose gear shock the same way, but somehow the gear leg is
contacting the rubber. Maybe use more weight on the nose?
Dennis
On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 12:34 PM, <nmflyer1 at aol.com> wrote:
>
> Well, I got the new nose gear installed with the upgraded bumper. I
weighed
> down the nose with 120 lbs, then used my ratchet tie down and scrunched it
> down even further. Put in the captivator plate.. no problem.
>
> Once I let the weight off, the captivator plate doesn't even touch the
nose
> gear. It is not tight at all. Great. Something else I have to re-design.
>
> Back to work (real work) to rest & ponder.
>
> Kurt
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
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--
All the best,
Dennis
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:45:06 -0500
From: "Andy Millin" <amillin at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: New Nose Gear (RG
To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'"
<reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <000001ca691e$81762760$84627620$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Did you create a shim behind the nose gear bumper? You will need around a
5/16" shim pad behind the new bumper.
Andy
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Dennis Martin
Sent: 11-18-2009 9:36
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: New Nose Gear (RG
I installed my new nose gear shock the same way, but somehow the gear leg is
contacting the rubber. Maybe use more weight on the nose?
Dennis
On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 12:34 PM, <nmflyer1 at aol.com> wrote:
Well, I got the new nose gear installed with the upgraded bumper. I weighed
down the nose with 120 lbs, then used my ratchet tie down and scrunched it
down even further. Put in the captivator plate.. no problem.
Once I let the weight off, the captivator plate doesn't even touch the nose
gear. It is not tight at all. Great. Something else I have to re-design.
Back to work (real work) to rest & ponder.
Kurt
_______________________________________________
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--
All the best,
Dennis
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 06:30:52 -0800
From: <aminetech at bluefrog.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 51- Pitch trim
problem
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <20091119063052.6F3BF940 at resin17.mta.everyone.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Mark,
That's interesting. I had the same trim limitation at about 160. I fixed
it by reversing the sparrow strainer. I'm curious about your canard stall
speeds before and after you reduced the incidence. Also did your top cruise
speed change?
John
--- the_rileys1 at verizon.net wrote:
From: "Mark Riley" <the_rileys1 at verizon.net>
To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 51- Pitch trim
problem
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:51:09 -0500
On my first plane, a standard RG, I ran out of nose down pitch trim at about
160 knots. The fix recommended by Scott Swing was to reduce the canard
incidence by relieving the area forward of the bulkhead, shimming the
trailing edge by one popsicle stick at the trailing edge and filling the
fuselage with micro to fill the gap. This completely solved my problem with
only about 2 hours of work.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of reflector-request at tvbf.org
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 6:16 PM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 51
Send Reflector mailing list submissions to
reflector at tvbf.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
reflector-request at tvbf.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Reflector digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Not enough Trim authority (Scott Derrick)
2. Re: Not enough Trim authority (aminetech at bluefrog.com)
3. Re: Not enough Trim authority (Douglas Holub)
4. Re: Not enough Trim authority (Douglas Holub)
5. Re: Not enough Trim authority ( Brett Ferrell )
6. Rubber stamps (velocityxlfg)
7. Re: Not enough Trim authority (Jack Prock)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:03:36 -0700
From: Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net>
Subject: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <4B01BE28.90003 at tnstaafl.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I was flying today after my latest change to the cooling system, oil and
cylinders. Not quite right but much much better. Oil stayed around 185
when at 50%, came up to 205 after 10 minutes of full throttle, I was
about 150 ROP. It was settling in at 175-180 KIAS at 10,500, turning
2600 rpm. Still have one cylinder running 45 degrees hotter than
everybody else. I'm going to swap sensors and make sure that isn't the
problem.
I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
with a stronger spring.
What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
Scott
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:48:35 -0800
From: <aminetech at bluefrog.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <20091116134835.6F366CDC at resin17.mta.everyone.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Scott,
Before I reversed the sparrow strainer, my pitch trim ran out at 155-160
kias. I recall that you tried reversing it and didn't have enough trim up
for approach. Perhaps no strainer at all would be a happy medium that would
work for you.
John
--- scott at tnstaafl.net wrote:
I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
with a stronger spring.
What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
Scott
_______________________________________________
To change your email address, visit
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
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Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:58:12 -0600
From: "Douglas Holub" <douglas.holub at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <6251165E69814FC482B2CF394F31E176 at Workshop>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
reply-type=original
I've got an IOX-360, but your trim sounds just like mine. With two people in
the front I don't have enough up trim to land, and with just me in the front
I don't have enough down trim when I'm flying faster than 160 kts. When I
take the canard off for the condition inspection in February I'll beef up
the factory trim spring. The problem with that, though, is that the trim
will be even touchier with a stiffer spring. Has anybody ever installed two
sparrow strainers? Or maybe I could just double the size of the airfoil on
the one I've got.
Doug Holub
Standard FG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:03 PM
Subject: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:09:04 -0600
From: "Douglas Holub" <douglas.holub at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <83F14B236AB243038065BF4C78A7D2EA at Workshop>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I can see how reversing the sparrow strainer would help the trim range, but
my longitudinal stability wasn't very good before I installed the sparrow
strainer. If I just let go of the stick, my altitude would oscillate +/- 300
feet. Now it's about half that. How is yours with the sparrow strainer
reversed?
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: <aminetech at bluefrog.com>
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
> Scott,
>
> Before I reversed the sparrow strainer, my pitch trim ran out at 155-160
> kias. I recall that you tried reversing it and didn't have enough trim up
> for approach. Perhaps no strainer at all would be a happy medium that
> would work for you.
>
> John
>
> --- scott at tnstaafl.net wrote:
>
>
>
> I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
> for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
> using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
> wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
> plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
> the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
> I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
> so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
> over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
> I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
>
> In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
> factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
> authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
> with a stronger spring.
>
> What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
> factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
> io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
>
> Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:47:46 -0500
From: " Brett Ferrell " <reflector at velocityxl.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Cc: scott at tnstaafl.net
Message-ID: <20091116224746.2611.qmail at s214.sureserver.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Scott,
Nope, we didn't have enough authority either, and reverted back to the
factory system after trying the Strong system for several hours. We worked
with Alex a bit to try and get more trim authority but decided to get the
plane tested before we messed with the trim any more. I think Alex will
work with us to get a solution, but shortly after completing our 40 hours we
landed on a road, so we haven't gotten back to testing yet. ;-) I hope to,
because it's a slick idea, we just need more trim than the current solution
seems to offer, at least for our airplane (I know that Dave nelson is quite
happy with his installation).
Brett
> -------Original Message-------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:03 PM
> Subject: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>
I was flying today after my latest change to the cooling system, oil and
cylinders. Not quite right but much much better. Oil stayed around 185
when at 50%, came up to 205 after 10 minutes of full throttle, I was
about 150 ROP. It was settling in at 175-180 KIAS at 10,500, turning
2600 rpm. Still have one cylinder running 45 degrees hotter than
everybody else. I'm going to swap sensors and make sure that isn't the
problem.
I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
with a stronger spring.
What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
Scott
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:08:21 -0600
From: "velocityxlfg" <velocityxl at fastmail.fm>
Subject: REFLECTOR: Rubber stamps
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <6EFC31B8767A4A76B95ABFA9B00CF22D at ronPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Does any have a good outlet for getting rubber stamps to mark
Switches? I have found rubber stamps that I can use to make
lables for my switch panal that are 1/8 . I would like to find some that are
3/32 high
any on got a good place to get them? How else are you all
marking your switches?
Ron
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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:18:16 -0800
From: "Jack Prock" <jackprock at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
To: "Brett Ferrell" <reflector at velocityxl.com>, "Velocity Aircraft
Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <00fe01ca6713$13ed5180$c801a8c0 at jaxwindows>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi,
I'm curious about what plane did you install the Strong trim system in and
it didn't work? I'm still
building an XL, and have the Strong system installed. I'm not flying yet, so
I'm now second
guessing my original decision.
Jack
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Ferrell" <reflector at velocityxl.com>
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Cc: <scott at tnstaafl.net>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
> Scott,
>
> Nope, we didn't have enough authority either, and reverted back to the
factory system after trying the Strong system for several hours. We worked
with Alex a bit to try and get more trim authority but decided to get the
plane tested before we messed with the trim any more. I think Alex will
work with us to get a solution, but shortly after completing our 40 hours we
landed on a road, so we haven't gotten back to testing yet. ;-) I hope to,
because it's a slick idea, we just need more trim than the current solution
seems to offer, at least for our airplane (I know that Dave nelson is quite
happy with his installation).
>
> Brett
>
>
> > -------Original Message-------
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
> > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:03 PM
> > Subject: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
> >
> I was flying today after my latest change to the cooling system, oil and
> cylinders. Not quite right but much much better. Oil stayed around 185
> when at 50%, came up to 205 after 10 minutes of full throttle, I was
> about 150 ROP. It was settling in at 175-180 KIAS at 10,500, turning
> 2600 rpm. Still have one cylinder running 45 degrees hotter than
> everybody else. I'm going to swap sensors and make sure that isn't the
> problem.
>
> I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
> for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
> using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
> wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
> plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
> the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
> I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
> so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
> over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
> I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
>
> In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
> factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
> authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
> with a stronger spring.
>
> What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
> factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
> io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
>
> Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
>
> Scott
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.67/2506 - Release Date: 11/16/09
07:43:00
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose
End of Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 51
*****************************************
_______________________________________________
To change your email address, visit
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose
End of Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 59
*****************************************
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose
End of Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 61
*****************************************
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