REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 51- Pitch trim problem
Scott Derrick
scott at tnstaafl.net
Thu Nov 19 12:54:06 CST 2009
Changing the canard's angle of attack to a finished airplane sounds like
a whole lot more than 2 hours! Maybe 20 hours. Not counting finish and
paint.
Scott
Douglas Holub wrote:
> Did you change the angle of the pad where the canard tabs bolt to the
> bulkhead?
>
> Doug Holub
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Riley" <the_rileys1 at verizon.net>
> To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 5:51 PM
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 66,Issue 51- Pitch trim
> problem
>
>
>> On my first plane, a standard RG, I ran out of nose down pitch trim
>> at about
>> 160 knots. The fix recommended by Scott Swing was to reduce the canard
>> incidence by relieving the area forward of the bulkhead, shimming the
>> trailing edge by one popsicle stick at the trailing edge and filling the
>> fuselage with micro to fill the gap. This completely solved my
>> problem with
>> only about 2 hours of work.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
>> Behalf Of reflector-request at tvbf.org
>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 6:16 PM
>> To: reflector at tvbf.org
>> Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 51
>>
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>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Not enough Trim authority (Scott Derrick)
>> 2. Re: Not enough Trim authority (aminetech at bluefrog.com)
>> 3. Re: Not enough Trim authority (Douglas Holub)
>> 4. Re: Not enough Trim authority (Douglas Holub)
>> 5. Re: Not enough Trim authority ( Brett Ferrell )
>> 6. Rubber stamps (velocityxlfg)
>> 7. Re: Not enough Trim authority (Jack Prock)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:03:36 -0700
>> From: Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net>
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Message-ID: <4B01BE28.90003 at tnstaafl.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> I was flying today after my latest change to the cooling system, oil and
>> cylinders. Not quite right but much much better. Oil stayed around 185
>> when at 50%, came up to 205 after 10 minutes of full throttle, I was
>> about 150 ROP. It was settling in at 175-180 KIAS at 10,500, turning
>> 2600 rpm. Still have one cylinder running 45 degrees hotter than
>> everybody else. I'm going to swap sensors and make sure that isn't the
>> problem.
>>
>> I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
>> for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
>> using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
>> wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
>> plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
>> the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
>> I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
>> so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
>> over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
>> I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
>>
>> In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
>> factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
>> authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
>> with a stronger spring.
>>
>> What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
>> factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
>> io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
>>
>> Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:48:35 -0800
>> From: <aminetech at bluefrog.com>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Message-ID: <20091116134835.6F366CDC at resin17.mta.everyone.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> Scott,
>>
>> Before I reversed the sparrow strainer, my pitch trim ran out at 155-160
>> kias. I recall that you tried reversing it and didn't have enough
>> trim up
>> for approach. Perhaps no strainer at all would be a happy medium
>> that would
>> work for you.
>>
>> John
>>
>> --- scott at tnstaafl.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
>> for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
>> using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
>> wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
>> plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
>> the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
>> I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
>> so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
>> over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
>> I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
>>
>> In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
>> factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
>> authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
>> with a stronger spring.
>>
>> What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
>> factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
>> io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
>>
>> Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>
>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:58:12 -0600
>> From: "Douglas Holub" <douglas.holub at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Message-ID: <6251165E69814FC482B2CF394F31E176 at Workshop>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> I've got an IOX-360, but your trim sounds just like mine. With two
>> people in
>>
>> the front I don't have enough up trim to land, and with just me in
>> the front
>>
>> I don't have enough down trim when I'm flying faster than 160 kts.
>> When I
>> take the canard off for the condition inspection in February I'll
>> beef up
>> the factory trim spring. The problem with that, though, is that the trim
>> will be even touchier with a stiffer spring. Has anybody ever
>> installed two
>> sparrow strainers? Or maybe I could just double the size of the
>> airfoil on
>> the one I've got.
>>
>> Doug Holub
>> Standard FG
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:03 PM
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>>
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> To change your email address, visit
>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>
>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:09:04 -0600
>> From: "Douglas Holub" <douglas.holub at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Message-ID: <83F14B236AB243038065BF4C78A7D2EA at Workshop>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> I can see how reversing the sparrow strainer would help the trim
>> range, but
>> my longitudinal stability wasn't very good before I installed the
>> sparrow
>> strainer. If I just let go of the stick, my altitude would oscillate
>> +/- 300
>>
>> feet. Now it's about half that. How is yours with the sparrow strainer
>> reversed?
>>
>> Doug
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <aminetech at bluefrog.com>
>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>>
>>
>>> Scott,
>>>
>>> Before I reversed the sparrow strainer, my pitch trim ran out at
>>> 155-160
>>> kias. I recall that you tried reversing it and didn't have enough
>>> trim up
>>
>>> for approach. Perhaps no strainer at all would be a happy medium that
>>> would work for you.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> --- scott at tnstaafl.net wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
>>> for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
>>> using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
>>> wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
>>> plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
>>> the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
>>> I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
>>> so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
>>> over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
>>> I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
>>>
>>> In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
>>> factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
>>> authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
>>> with a stronger spring.
>>>
>>> What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
>>> factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
>>> io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
>>>
>>> Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> To change your email address, visit
>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>
>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> To change your email address, visit
>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>
>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:47:46 -0500
>> From: " Brett Ferrell " <reflector at velocityxl.com>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Cc: scott at tnstaafl.net
>> Message-ID: <20091116224746.2611.qmail at s214.sureserver.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Scott,
>>
>> Nope, we didn't have enough authority either, and reverted back to the
>> factory system after trying the Strong system for several hours. We
>> worked
>> with Alex a bit to try and get more trim authority but decided to get
>> the
>> plane tested before we messed with the trim any more. I think Alex will
>> work with us to get a solution, but shortly after completing our 40
>> hours we
>> landed on a road, so we haven't gotten back to testing yet. ;-) I
>> hope to,
>> because it's a slick idea, we just need more trim than the current
>> solution
>> seems to offer, at least for our airplane (I know that Dave nelson is
>> quite
>> happy with his installation).
>>
>> Brett
>>
>>
>>> -------Original Message-------
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
>>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:03 PM
>>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>>>
>> I was flying today after my latest change to the cooling system, oil and
>> cylinders. Not quite right but much much better. Oil stayed around 185
>> when at 50%, came up to 205 after 10 minutes of full throttle, I was
>> about 150 ROP. It was settling in at 175-180 KIAS at 10,500, turning
>> 2600 rpm. Still have one cylinder running 45 degrees hotter than
>> everybody else. I'm going to swap sensors and make sure that isn't the
>> problem.
>>
>> I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
>> for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
>> using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
>> wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
>> plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
>> the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
>> I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
>> so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
>> over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
>> I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
>>
>> In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
>> factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
>> authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
>> with a stronger spring.
>>
>> What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
>> factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
>> io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
>>
>> Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:08:21 -0600
>> From: "velocityxlfg" <velocityxl at fastmail.fm>
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Rubber stamps
>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Message-ID: <6EFC31B8767A4A76B95ABFA9B00CF22D at ronPC>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Does any have a good outlet for getting rubber stamps to mark
>> Switches? I have found rubber stamps that I can use to make
>> lables for my switch panal that are 1/8 . I would like to find some
>> that are
>> 3/32 high
>> any on got a good place to get them? How else are you all
>> marking your switches?
>>
>> Ron
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
>> /attachment-0001.htm>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:18:16 -0800
>> From: "Jack Prock" <jackprock at comcast.net>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>> To: "Brett Ferrell" <reflector at velocityxl.com>, "Velocity Aircraft
>> Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Message-ID: <00fe01ca6713$13ed5180$c801a8c0 at jaxwindows>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm curious about what plane did you install the Strong trim system
>> in and
>> it didn't work? I'm still
>> building an XL, and have the Strong system installed. I'm not flying
>> yet, so
>> I'm now second
>> guessing my original decision.
>>
>> Jack
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Ferrell"
>> <reflector at velocityxl.com>
>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Cc: <scott at tnstaafl.net>
>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 2:47 PM
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>>
>>
>>> Scott,
>>>
>>> Nope, we didn't have enough authority either, and reverted back to the
>> factory system after trying the Strong system for several hours. We
>> worked
>> with Alex a bit to try and get more trim authority but decided to get
>> the
>> plane tested before we messed with the trim any more. I think Alex will
>> work with us to get a solution, but shortly after completing our 40
>> hours we
>> landed on a road, so we haven't gotten back to testing yet. ;-) I
>> hope to,
>> because it's a slick idea, we just need more trim than the current
>> solution
>> seems to offer, at least for our airplane (I know that Dave nelson is
>> quite
>> happy with his installation).
>>>
>>> Brett
>>>
>>>
>>> > -------Original Message-------
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
>>> > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list"
>>> <reflector at tvbf.org>
>>> > Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:03 PM
>>> > Subject: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>>> >
>>> I was flying today after my latest change to the cooling system, oil
>>> and
>>> cylinders. Not quite right but much much better. Oil stayed around 185
>>> when at 50%, came up to 205 after 10 minutes of full throttle, I was
>>> about 150 ROP. It was settling in at 175-180 KIAS at 10,500, turning
>>> 2600 rpm. Still have one cylinder running 45 degrees hotter than
>>> everybody else. I'm going to swap sensors and make sure that isn't
>>> the
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
>>> for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
>>> using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
>>> wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
>>> plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
>>> the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
>>> I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
>>> so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
>>> over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
>>> I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
>>>
>>> In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
>>> factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
>>> authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
>>> with a stronger spring.
>>>
>>> What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
>>> factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
>>> io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
>>>
>>> Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
>>>
>>> Scott
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> To change your email address, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>
>>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.67/2506 - Release Date:
>> 11/16/09
>> 07:43:00
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>
>> End of Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 51
>> *****************************************
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>
>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
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