REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 51- Pitch trim problem
Douglas Holub
douglas.holub at gmail.com
Thu Nov 19 09:39:10 CST 2009
Did you change the angle of the pad where the canard tabs bolt to the
bulkhead?
Doug Holub
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Riley" <the_rileys1 at verizon.net>
To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 66,Issue 51- Pitch trim
problem
> On my first plane, a standard RG, I ran out of nose down pitch trim at
> about
> 160 knots. The fix recommended by Scott Swing was to reduce the canard
> incidence by relieving the area forward of the bulkhead, shimming the
> trailing edge by one popsicle stick at the trailing edge and filling the
> fuselage with micro to fill the gap. This completely solved my problem
> with
> only about 2 hours of work.
>
> Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of reflector-request at tvbf.org
> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 6:16 PM
> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 51
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Not enough Trim authority (Scott Derrick)
> 2. Re: Not enough Trim authority (aminetech at bluefrog.com)
> 3. Re: Not enough Trim authority (Douglas Holub)
> 4. Re: Not enough Trim authority (Douglas Holub)
> 5. Re: Not enough Trim authority ( Brett Ferrell )
> 6. Rubber stamps (velocityxlfg)
> 7. Re: Not enough Trim authority (Jack Prock)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:03:36 -0700
> From: Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net>
> Subject: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID: <4B01BE28.90003 at tnstaafl.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I was flying today after my latest change to the cooling system, oil and
> cylinders. Not quite right but much much better. Oil stayed around 185
> when at 50%, came up to 205 after 10 minutes of full throttle, I was
> about 150 ROP. It was settling in at 175-180 KIAS at 10,500, turning
> 2600 rpm. Still have one cylinder running 45 degrees hotter than
> everybody else. I'm going to swap sensors and make sure that isn't the
> problem.
>
> I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
> for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
> using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
> wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
> plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
> the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
> I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
> so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
> over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
> I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
>
> In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
> factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
> authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
> with a stronger spring.
>
> What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
> factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
> io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
>
> Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:48:35 -0800
> From: <aminetech at bluefrog.com>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID: <20091116134835.6F366CDC at resin17.mta.everyone.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Scott,
>
> Before I reversed the sparrow strainer, my pitch trim ran out at 155-160
> kias. I recall that you tried reversing it and didn't have enough trim up
> for approach. Perhaps no strainer at all would be a happy medium that
> would
> work for you.
>
> John
>
> --- scott at tnstaafl.net wrote:
>
>
>
> I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
> for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
> using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
> wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
> plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
> the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
> I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
> so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
> over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
> I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
>
> In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
> factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
> authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
> with a stronger spring.
>
> What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
> factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
> io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
>
> Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:58:12 -0600
> From: "Douglas Holub" <douglas.holub at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID: <6251165E69814FC482B2CF394F31E176 at Workshop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
> reply-type=original
>
> I've got an IOX-360, but your trim sounds just like mine. With two people
> in
>
> the front I don't have enough up trim to land, and with just me in the
> front
>
> I don't have enough down trim when I'm flying faster than 160 kts. When I
> take the canard off for the condition inspection in February I'll beef up
> the factory trim spring. The problem with that, though, is that the trim
> will be even touchier with a stiffer spring. Has anybody ever installed
> two
> sparrow strainers? Or maybe I could just double the size of the airfoil on
> the one I've got.
>
> Doug Holub
> Standard FG
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:03 PM
> Subject: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>
>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:09:04 -0600
> From: "Douglas Holub" <douglas.holub at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID: <83F14B236AB243038065BF4C78A7D2EA at Workshop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> I can see how reversing the sparrow strainer would help the trim range,
> but
> my longitudinal stability wasn't very good before I installed the sparrow
> strainer. If I just let go of the stick, my altitude would oscillate +/-
> 300
>
> feet. Now it's about half that. How is yours with the sparrow strainer
> reversed?
>
> Doug
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <aminetech at bluefrog.com>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:48 PM
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>
>
>> Scott,
>>
>> Before I reversed the sparrow strainer, my pitch trim ran out at 155-160
>> kias. I recall that you tried reversing it and didn't have enough trim
>> up
>
>> for approach. Perhaps no strainer at all would be a happy medium that
>> would work for you.
>>
>> John
>>
>> --- scott at tnstaafl.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
>> for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
>> using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
>> wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
>> plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
>> the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
>> I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
>> so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
>> over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
>> I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
>>
>> In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
>> factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
>> authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
>> with a stronger spring.
>>
>> What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
>> factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
>> io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
>>
>> Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>
>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>
>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:47:46 -0500
> From: " Brett Ferrell " <reflector at velocityxl.com>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Cc: scott at tnstaafl.net
> Message-ID: <20091116224746.2611.qmail at s214.sureserver.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Scott,
>
> Nope, we didn't have enough authority either, and reverted back to the
> factory system after trying the Strong system for several hours. We
> worked
> with Alex a bit to try and get more trim authority but decided to get the
> plane tested before we messed with the trim any more. I think Alex will
> work with us to get a solution, but shortly after completing our 40 hours
> we
> landed on a road, so we haven't gotten back to testing yet. ;-) I hope
> to,
> because it's a slick idea, we just need more trim than the current
> solution
> seems to offer, at least for our airplane (I know that Dave nelson is
> quite
> happy with his installation).
>
> Brett
>
>
>> -------Original Message-------
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:03 PM
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>>
> I was flying today after my latest change to the cooling system, oil and
> cylinders. Not quite right but much much better. Oil stayed around 185
> when at 50%, came up to 205 after 10 minutes of full throttle, I was
> about 150 ROP. It was settling in at 175-180 KIAS at 10,500, turning
> 2600 rpm. Still have one cylinder running 45 degrees hotter than
> everybody else. I'm going to swap sensors and make sure that isn't the
> problem.
>
> I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
> for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
> using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
> wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
> plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
> the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
> I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
> so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
> over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
> I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
>
> In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
> factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
> authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
> with a stronger spring.
>
> What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
> factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
> io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
>
> Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
>
> Scott
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:08:21 -0600
> From: "velocityxlfg" <velocityxl at fastmail.fm>
> Subject: REFLECTOR: Rubber stamps
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID: <6EFC31B8767A4A76B95ABFA9B00CF22D at ronPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Does any have a good outlet for getting rubber stamps to mark
> Switches? I have found rubber stamps that I can use to make
> lables for my switch panal that are 1/8 . I would like to find some that
> are
> 3/32 high
> any on got a good place to get them? How else are you all
> marking your switches?
>
> Ron
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> /attachment-0001.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:18:16 -0800
> From: "Jack Prock" <jackprock at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
> To: "Brett Ferrell" <reflector at velocityxl.com>, "Velocity Aircraft
> Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID: <00fe01ca6713$13ed5180$c801a8c0 at jaxwindows>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm curious about what plane did you install the Strong trim system in and
> it didn't work? I'm still
> building an XL, and have the Strong system installed. I'm not flying yet,
> so
> I'm now second
> guessing my original decision.
>
> Jack
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brett Ferrell" <reflector at velocityxl.com>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Cc: <scott at tnstaafl.net>
> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 2:47 PM
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>
>
>> Scott,
>>
>> Nope, we didn't have enough authority either, and reverted back to the
> factory system after trying the Strong system for several hours. We
> worked
> with Alex a bit to try and get more trim authority but decided to get the
> plane tested before we messed with the trim any more. I think Alex will
> work with us to get a solution, but shortly after completing our 40 hours
> we
> landed on a road, so we haven't gotten back to testing yet. ;-) I hope
> to,
> because it's a slick idea, we just need more trim than the current
> solution
> seems to offer, at least for our airplane (I know that Dave nelson is
> quite
> happy with his installation).
>>
>> Brett
>>
>>
>> > -------Original Message-------
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
>> > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> > Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:03 PM
>> > Subject: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>> >
>> I was flying today after my latest change to the cooling system, oil and
>> cylinders. Not quite right but much much better. Oil stayed around 185
>> when at 50%, came up to 205 after 10 minutes of full throttle, I was
>> about 150 ROP. It was settling in at 175-180 KIAS at 10,500, turning
>> 2600 rpm. Still have one cylinder running 45 degrees hotter than
>> everybody else. I'm going to swap sensors and make sure that isn't the
>> problem.
>>
>> I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
>> for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
>> using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
>> wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
>> plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
>> the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
>> I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
>> so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
>> over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
>> I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
>>
>> In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
>> factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
>> authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
>> with a stronger spring.
>>
>> What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
>> factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
>> io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
>>
>> Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
>>
>> Scott
>> _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>
>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose
>
> End of Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 51
> *****************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
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