REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 51- Pitch trim problem
Mark Riley
the_rileys1 at verizon.net
Wed Nov 18 17:51:09 CST 2009
On my first plane, a standard RG, I ran out of nose down pitch trim at about
160 knots. The fix recommended by Scott Swing was to reduce the canard
incidence by relieving the area forward of the bulkhead, shimming the
trailing edge by one popsicle stick at the trailing edge and filling the
fuselage with micro to fill the gap. This completely solved my problem with
only about 2 hours of work.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 6:16 PM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 66, Issue 51
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Today's Topics:
1. Not enough Trim authority (Scott Derrick)
2. Re: Not enough Trim authority (aminetech at bluefrog.com)
3. Re: Not enough Trim authority (Douglas Holub)
4. Re: Not enough Trim authority (Douglas Holub)
5. Re: Not enough Trim authority ( Brett Ferrell )
6. Rubber stamps (velocityxlfg)
7. Re: Not enough Trim authority (Jack Prock)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:03:36 -0700
From: Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net>
Subject: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <4B01BE28.90003 at tnstaafl.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I was flying today after my latest change to the cooling system, oil and
cylinders. Not quite right but much much better. Oil stayed around 185
when at 50%, came up to 205 after 10 minutes of full throttle, I was
about 150 ROP. It was settling in at 175-180 KIAS at 10,500, turning
2600 rpm. Still have one cylinder running 45 degrees hotter than
everybody else. I'm going to swap sensors and make sure that isn't the
problem.
I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
with a stronger spring.
What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
Scott
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:48:35 -0800
From: <aminetech at bluefrog.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <20091116134835.6F366CDC at resin17.mta.everyone.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Scott,
Before I reversed the sparrow strainer, my pitch trim ran out at 155-160
kias. I recall that you tried reversing it and didn't have enough trim up
for approach. Perhaps no strainer at all would be a happy medium that would
work for you.
John
--- scott at tnstaafl.net wrote:
I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
with a stronger spring.
What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
Scott
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:58:12 -0600
From: "Douglas Holub" <douglas.holub at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <6251165E69814FC482B2CF394F31E176 at Workshop>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
reply-type=original
I've got an IOX-360, but your trim sounds just like mine. With two people in
the front I don't have enough up trim to land, and with just me in the front
I don't have enough down trim when I'm flying faster than 160 kts. When I
take the canard off for the condition inspection in February I'll beef up
the factory trim spring. The problem with that, though, is that the trim
will be even touchier with a stiffer spring. Has anybody ever installed two
sparrow strainers? Or maybe I could just double the size of the airfoil on
the one I've got.
Doug Holub
Standard FG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:03 PM
Subject: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:09:04 -0600
From: "Douglas Holub" <douglas.holub at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <83F14B236AB243038065BF4C78A7D2EA at Workshop>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I can see how reversing the sparrow strainer would help the trim range, but
my longitudinal stability wasn't very good before I installed the sparrow
strainer. If I just let go of the stick, my altitude would oscillate +/- 300
feet. Now it's about half that. How is yours with the sparrow strainer
reversed?
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: <aminetech at bluefrog.com>
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
> Scott,
>
> Before I reversed the sparrow strainer, my pitch trim ran out at 155-160
> kias. I recall that you tried reversing it and didn't have enough trim up
> for approach. Perhaps no strainer at all would be a happy medium that
> would work for you.
>
> John
>
> --- scott at tnstaafl.net wrote:
>
>
>
> I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
> for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
> using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
> wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
> plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
> the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
> I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
> so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
> over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
> I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
>
> In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
> factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
> authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
> with a stronger spring.
>
> What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
> factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
> io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
>
> Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:47:46 -0500
From: " Brett Ferrell " <reflector at velocityxl.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Cc: scott at tnstaafl.net
Message-ID: <20091116224746.2611.qmail at s214.sureserver.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Scott,
Nope, we didn't have enough authority either, and reverted back to the
factory system after trying the Strong system for several hours. We worked
with Alex a bit to try and get more trim authority but decided to get the
plane tested before we messed with the trim any more. I think Alex will
work with us to get a solution, but shortly after completing our 40 hours we
landed on a road, so we haven't gotten back to testing yet. ;-) I hope to,
because it's a slick idea, we just need more trim than the current solution
seems to offer, at least for our airplane (I know that Dave nelson is quite
happy with his installation).
Brett
> -------Original Message-------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:03 PM
> Subject: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
>
I was flying today after my latest change to the cooling system, oil and
cylinders. Not quite right but much much better. Oil stayed around 185
when at 50%, came up to 205 after 10 minutes of full throttle, I was
about 150 ROP. It was settling in at 175-180 KIAS at 10,500, turning
2600 rpm. Still have one cylinder running 45 degrees hotter than
everybody else. I'm going to swap sensors and make sure that isn't the
problem.
I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
with a stronger spring.
What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
Scott
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:08:21 -0600
From: "velocityxlfg" <velocityxl at fastmail.fm>
Subject: REFLECTOR: Rubber stamps
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <6EFC31B8767A4A76B95ABFA9B00CF22D at ronPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Does any have a good outlet for getting rubber stamps to mark
Switches? I have found rubber stamps that I can use to make
lables for my switch panal that are 1/8 . I would like to find some that are
3/32 high
any on got a good place to get them? How else are you all
marking your switches?
Ron
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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:18:16 -0800
From: "Jack Prock" <jackprock at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
To: "Brett Ferrell" <reflector at velocityxl.com>, "Velocity Aircraft
Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <00fe01ca6713$13ed5180$c801a8c0 at jaxwindows>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi,
I'm curious about what plane did you install the Strong trim system in and
it didn't work? I'm still
building an XL, and have the Strong system installed. I'm not flying yet, so
I'm now second
guessing my original decision.
Jack
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Ferrell" <reflector at velocityxl.com>
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Cc: <scott at tnstaafl.net>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
> Scott,
>
> Nope, we didn't have enough authority either, and reverted back to the
factory system after trying the Strong system for several hours. We worked
with Alex a bit to try and get more trim authority but decided to get the
plane tested before we messed with the trim any more. I think Alex will
work with us to get a solution, but shortly after completing our 40 hours we
landed on a road, so we haven't gotten back to testing yet. ;-) I hope to,
because it's a slick idea, we just need more trim than the current solution
seems to offer, at least for our airplane (I know that Dave nelson is quite
happy with his installation).
>
> Brett
>
>
> > -------Original Message-------
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
> > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:03 PM
> > Subject: REFLECTOR: Not enough Trim authority
> >
> I was flying today after my latest change to the cooling system, oil and
> cylinders. Not quite right but much much better. Oil stayed around 185
> when at 50%, came up to 205 after 10 minutes of full throttle, I was
> about 150 ROP. It was settling in at 175-180 KIAS at 10,500, turning
> 2600 rpm. Still have one cylinder running 45 degrees hotter than
> everybody else. I'm going to swap sensors and make sure that isn't the
> problem.
>
> I do have a problem with the trim. I just don't have enough down trim
> for cruise speeds. If my indicated is 150kias or below its fine. I am
> using the Strong System because I was under the impression it had a
> wider range of trim than the factory design. Now I wonder. I have
> plenty of up trim on approach with single pilot but I haven't loaded up
> the front yet(forward cg). Still waiting for the new Catto prop before
> I add any more ballast to the front seat. I have the system installed
> so its got about 60% down trim travel, and 40% up trim, so I'm already
> over compensated for down trim. The instructions call for 50/50.
> I'm sending Alex an email to see what he recommends.
>
> In the mean time I'm thinking about plan B, which is to reinstall the
> factory trim, but stiffen up the spring somewhat to provide more trim
> authority. I'msomewhat reluctant because of the problem of runway trim
> with a stronger spring.
>
> What are the fast V's doing? I had marginal trim before with the
> factory spring, not quite enough down, just barely enough up with the
> io360. Thats why I changed to the Strong system.
>
> Anybody else have this problem? Solutions?
>
> Scott
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
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