REFLECTOR: Update on my Subaru installation

Alex Balic velocity_pilot at verizon.net
Sun Mar 29 18:39:37 CDT 2009 

Kurt-

I have seen a velocity with some extensions to the top of the NACAs that
sort of make them ram scoops- probably you could just do that if you come up
a little short on cooling- I might use a solid state control on my blower
too, but the one I tried gave me some radio noise, so I went back to the
resistors- I was thinking of adding a small T to blow some air up on the
windshield= do you do that or have a dedicated valve for that? - I might add
a trap door to the discharge plenum to allow me to just dump the air into
the nose compartment- not sure if there would be a low pressure area in
there though- might need to add something to the door area to make that
happen.

I look forward to looking at your pictures when you get a chance.

 

Alex

 

  _____  

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of nmflyer1 at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 6:23 PM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Update on my Subaru installation

 

Alex, 

 

I have seen the final form of Dave's beast. Unless something was different,
I'm not surprised there wasn't enough pressure to turn the air thru the
radiator to get effective cooling. There might not be enough for mine
either, but the NACA's feed straight into the cooling fins. There is an
expansion area, but no turns to go thru the fins. 

I have a backup plan to add a touch of a scoop onto the NACA's if I need it,
but I want to try it without first. 

 

I am using a solid state motor controller on the blower so that I have
infinate motor speed without the need for a wasteful balast resistor. Since
everything is electric, I needed to save power wherever I could.  My blower
pulls from inside, just like your system. I have 6 air vents for the cabin,
so when it is hot you can pull in fresh air, run it through the core, exit
outside right in front of the nose strut. 

When heat is needed in the cabin, mine is like yours with outlets at the
feet, but I have a smaller tube running up to a defroster on the windshield
too. 

I have a picture of the radiator setup (without the engine in the way) at
home. I'll dig it up and send it to you. 

Wish I was home in the hangar working on the V, but I had to come to work to
pay for the next step... paint & interior. 

Kurt 


-----Original Message-----
From: Alex B alic <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list' <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 4:05 pm
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Update on my Subaru installation

Hi Kurt-

You might make some preliminary plans to construct a ram scoop for your
radiator- Dave Bertram tried to use a NACA to get air for his Chevy and
could not get enough pressure- now he has a ram scoop- I learned from that
and built the ram scoop from the start- maybe your config is different
somewhat and might get enough? Not sure, but something you might at least
think about for later

I have the stock Velocity oil cooler up front running coolant- I insulated
the lines so they do not transfer to each other and run in the pilot side
duct, I have a blower a fan like you have (no external scoop) it pulls from
cabin over the top of the canard, through a block off panel I have on there,
and dumps at the feet- 2 speed fan- it works nice already, but I do not have
any provisions to dump overboard- I might need to look at your setup if this
becomes needed.  You mentioned that you have 2 radiators in the back- do you
have a picture of this installation- would be interested to see how that
works,.

 

Alex

 

  _____  

From:  <mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org> reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [
<mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org?> mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of  <mailto:nmflyer1 at aol.com> nmflyer1 at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 4:34 PM
To:  <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org> reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Update on my Subaru installation

 

Alex, 
 I have 2 XL sized NACA scoops on the top. One feeds the upper radiator, the
second provides flow to the intake, alternator & across the fuel rails. I
have a second NACA underneath that feeds the lower radiator & Oil cooler. In
effect it acts like a ram scoop in climb, and a Naca in cruise. At least
that's what I had in mind. As you know, the proof is in the testing. 

The heater core in the nose is a big ford van heater core with a blower
motor attached. I can duct inside for heat, or outside for extra cooling. It
uses NPG+ and is plumbed much like a stock Velocity oil line situation. One
down one side, returning on the other side. 

I also designed exit scoops hoping that t he prop would pull air straight
thru the NACA scoops. That should create flow through the radiators, across
the fuel rails and the bottom of the oil pan. I hope that, with the boost
cooler in the nose, that I have enough flow to taxi withoug building up too
much heat. 

Kurt 


-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Balic < <mailto:velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list' <
<mailto:reflector at tvbf.org> reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 11:15 am
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Update on my Subaru installation

That engine sounds really good Kurt- I think we will have a really good
lineup at Oshkosh in a few years- we have V-8, V-6, Rotary, and Subaru
powered Velocities- 

What sort of scoop are you running to your radiator? And are you running
coolant or oil to your heater core in the nose?

 

Alex

 

  _____  

From:  <mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org> reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [
<mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org?> mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of  <mailto:nmflyer1 at aol.com> nmflyer1 at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 10:25 AM
To:  <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org> reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Update on my Subaru installation

 

If you decide to go with the Evans, chose the NPG+, not the re gular NPG.
The NPG+ addresses some of20the issues Al mentioned. I am using it, and
haven't had any issues on ground runs. Time will tell about In the air. 

It is interesting how many different power plant & cooling methods Velocity
builders are using. Can't wait for our big fly in!

Working on Interior stuff and finishing up the cowl aft of the wing attach
fins. Then block for paint. 

 Kurt Winker
173 FGE 
340 HP Aluminum V-6
Sounds great, Hear it at:   <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT-0zHmcp9o>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT-0zHmcp9o


-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Balic < <mailto:velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list' <
<mailto:reflector at tvbf.org> reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 9:13 pm
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Update on my Subaru installation

Right now I am running a 25% glycol solution with a 16 pound cap I have some
of that "RedLine" wetting agent in there too- not sure if that works, but it
sure won't hurt anything- Subaru's usually don't have cooling issues- good
design I guess, just need to make sure I have a good seal around my
radiator- if I am loosing coolant, I will change to20a 24 pound cap- I20have
a pressure sensor on the coolant, so I can sure keep an eye on it- Evans
coolant wa s a plan B- always good to have plenty of Plan B-s laying around
I always say...  :-)

 

  _____  

From:  <mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org> reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [
<mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org?> mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Al Gietzen
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 8:12 PM
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Update on my Subaru installation

 

Well; Sid, I'll have to disagree with your disagreement.  The pressure
exerted on the spring is the differential pressure on the seal plate, which
is dependant on the ambient pressure outside.

 

I use a double cap setup; 15 on the filler neck; 23 on the expansion tank.  

 

Alex; before you get too serious about the non-aqueous coolant, take a look
at the viscosity (pump power, pressure drops) and the specific heat
(requiring greater flow rates for the same heat removal).  To me it all adds
up to a poor choice; and the two people I know who have tried it gave it up
as a bad idea.

 < /SPAN>

Best coolant is water, with just enough EG (or other) for corrosion
protection.

 

Al

 

-----Original Message-----
From:  <mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org> reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [
<mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org?> mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Sid Knox
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 3:38 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Update on my Subaru installation

 

I have to disagree here... the seal is working against a spring, not am
bient 

0A 

pressure.  Therefore, altitude is not a factor, or at most, a minor factor.

 

Sid

 

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Laurence Coen" < <mailto:lwcoen at hotmail.com> lwcoen at hotmail.com>

To: "Velocity Aircraft Owne rs and Builders=2 0list" <
<mailto:reflector at tvbf.org> reflector at tvbf.org>

Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 1:23 PM

Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Update on my Subaru installation

 

 

I really should read these things before I hit send.  I should have said a 9


psi cap at sea level or 24 psi absolute pressure.   That 14 psi cap would 

give about 29 psi absolute at sea level.  A 20 psi cap should handle things 

=0 A 

to 12,000 plus feet.

 

Larry Coen

N136LC

 

 

From: Laurence Coen

Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 1:37 PM

To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list

Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Update on my Subaru installation

 

 

Alex,

 

At 10,000 feet you lose about 5 psi of atmosphere making your 14 psi cap a 9


psi cap absolute pressure.

 

Larry Coen

N136LC

 

 

 

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