REFLECTOR: Help with poor running Franklin
Jeff Howell
jeffreyhowell at hotmail.com
Thu Mar 26 01:09:06 CDT 2009
did you do a cylinder leak down and check for proper seating of the valves? I am running a franklin 6a350c1 and it performs awsome. I have electronic ignition other than that everyting is almost the same as you. I am running total seal gapless rings on my bird...Jeff
> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 21:55:19 -0500
> From: michalk at awpi.com
> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Help with poor running Franklin
>
> Backfiring.
>
> When you removed the plugs, did you "read" them? Specifically the top
> plugs?
>
> By backfire, do you mean out the carburetor, or out the exhaust? Do you
> know what your fuel flow rate is with engine running? What about CHT's,
> or EGT's?
>
> Even though you cleaned your plugs, did you ever drop one of them or get
> aggressive with bead blasting?
>
> Are you sure you have your spark plug wires in correct firing order?
>
> If you don't have individual cylinders instrumented, McMaster Carr has
> heat sensitive crayons and adhesive dots. Place them on each cylinder
> and do a ground run and note when they turn. I have an assortment of
> these and stick them on various places so that I know how hot things are
> getting.
>
> Jerry Teitsma wrote:
> > Please help me with your ideas for my dilemma.
> >
> > I have flown my Velocity Elite FG for 26 hours but the engine has never
> > run well. I have attributed that to oil blow by that has frequently
> > fouled plugs. The rings did not seat at least partially due to the high
> > altitude where I fly (8200 ft. field and flying at 10,000 ft or more as
> > well as the hard steel cylinder linings. As a result, I recently pulled
> > the engine and did a top end overhaul with new softer cylinder liners.
> > It now runs even worse. I can't get more than 1500 rpm although it
> > idles fairly well. It cuts in and out with back firing intermittently.
> > It acts like it is starving for fuel or has induction leaks. It is
> > fairly non-reactive to mixture changes.
> >
> > Following is a list of items that have been done in chasing the problem:
> >
> > 1. I plugged the exhaust pipes and pressurized the intake manifolds to
> > about 15 psi using soap to look for any induction leaks. I found none.
> >
> > 2. The MA-5 carburetor was removed and sent in to a test shop where it
> > was checked for flow rate and a service bulletin 13 was performed. It
> > tested out OK.
> >
> > 3. The fuel flow rate was checked and found adequate in fuel flow and
> > in pressure.
> >
> > 4. The mag timing was checked and rechecked and is right on.
> >
> > 5. The mags were taken off the engine and checked for correct action
> > and timing.
> >
> > 6. The wiring was traced through for the mags to the cylinders to make
> > sure they were not cross wired.
> >
> > 7. The spark plugs (nearly new) were removed, cleaned and gaped.
> >
> > 8. We removed the valve covers and checked the open and closing
> > sequence of intake and exhaust valves. All seem to occur at the correct
> > time and in the correct overlap.
> >
> > The only thing we can think of that has not been checked is the cam for
> > proper lift and timing.
> >
> > Although it has never run well, it has run better prior to the overhaul.
> > Has anyone experienced similar problems? Any ideas? I would really
> > appreciate your input. JT
> >
> > Jerry Teitsma
> > PO Box 796, Granby CO 80446 (USPS mail/shipping)
> > 36 Lodgepole Ct, Granby CO 80446 (UPS/FedEx shipping)
> > 970-887-3910 (Phone/Fax)
> > jerryteits at comcast.net
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: <reflector-request at tvbf.org>
> > To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:11 AM
> > Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 58, Issue 52
> >
> >
> >> Send Reflector mailing list submissions to
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> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >> 1. Re: I'm passing on this destination (gattenby at tulsaconnect.com)
> >> 2. Elevator cuff (gattenby at tulsaconnect.com)
> >> 3. Re: Elevator cuff (Brian Michalk)
> >> 4. Re: Elevator cuff (Stockman, Bill)
> >> 5. Re: Elevator cuff (nmflyer1 at aol.com)
> >> 6. Re: Elevator cuff (Dennis Martin)
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 1
> >> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:01:31 -0500
> >> From: <gattenby at tulsaconnect.com>
> >> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: I'm passing on this destination
> >> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> >> Message-ID: <web-22756828 at cgpro2.tulsaconnect.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL:
> >> <http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/private/reflector/attachments/20090324/3b6e4c14/attachment-0001.htm>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 2
> >> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:41:39 -0500
> >> From: <gattenby at tulsaconnect.com>
> >> Subject: REFLECTOR: Elevator cuff
> >> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> >> Message-ID: <web-22920556 at cgpro2.tulsaconnect.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL:
> >> <http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/private/reflector/attachments/20090325/ab270855/attachment-0001.htm>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 3
> >> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:51:18 -0500
> >> From: Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com>
> >> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Elevator cuff
> >> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> >> Message-ID: <49CA44E6.6070800 at awpi.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >>
> >> http://www.tvbf.org/search.html
> >>
> >> It used to be on the main page. I need to add it.
> >>
> >> gattenby at tulsaconnect.com wrote:
> >>> I've looked through the archives for a while. (any way to do a
> >>> search?) for info on the elevator cuffs.
> >>> I didn't find anything, I know it's been discussed...
> >>>
> >>> My 2000 suv kit came with the cuffs, the new manuals don't mention
> >>> them.
> >>> Some builder sites have pictures of putting them on, some don't.
> >>>
> >>> What's the general thought on putting them on?
> >>>
> >>> Noel
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> To change your email address, visit
> >>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> >>>
> >>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
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> >>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> >>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 4
> >> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 10:54:33 -0400
> >> From: "Stockman, Bill" <bill.stockman at daytonaero.com>
> >> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Elevator cuff
> >> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> >> Message-ID:
> >> <1C2BDF8F50E7444BA5B4E343D9FD6AA101210A79 at MI8NYCMAIL01.Mi8.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> They came with my kit (173 FGE LW) that I purchased in 1997, but was
> >> advised by the factory to remove them once I put the VGs on.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Bill Stockman, Senior Associate
> >>
> >> Dayton Aerospace
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> (937) 369-4799 cell
> >>
> >> (937) 426-4300 work
> >>
> >> bill.stockman at daytonaero.com
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >>
> >> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> >> Behalf Of gattenby at tulsaconnect.com
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:42 AM
> >> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> >> Subject: REFLECTOR: Elevator cuff
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I've looked through the archives for a while. (any way to do a search?)
> >> for info on the elevator cuffs.
> >>
> >> I didn't find anything, I know it's been discussed...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> My 2000 suv kit came with the cuffs, the new manuals don't mention
> >> them.
> >>
> >> Some builder sites have pictures of putting them on, some don't.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> What's the general thought on putting them on?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Noel
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL:
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> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 5
> >> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 11:40:47 -0400
> >> From: nmflyer1 at aol.com
> >> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Elevator cuff
> >> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> >> Message-ID: <8CB7B7732F914B5-1448-F7F at webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >>
> >> I've asked about this as well. The consensus I have received back is
> >> that it is best to leave them off. I was told this will lower the
> >> stall speed of the canard. It will also make the "pitch buck" once it
> >> does stall more pronounced. I think I was told that it helps elevator
> >> authority when slow as well.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Kurt
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: gattenby at tulsaconnect.com
> >> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> >> Sent: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 8:41 am
> >> Subject: REFLECTOR: Elevator cuff
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I've looked through the archives for a while. (any way to do a
> >> search?) for info on the elevator cuffs.
> >>
> >> I didn't find anything,? I know it's been discussed...
> >>
> >> ?
> >>
> >> My 2000 suv kit came with the cuffs,? the new manuals don't mention them.
> >>
> >> Some builder sites have pictures of putting them on, some don't.
> >>
> >> ?
> >>
> >> What's the general thought on putting them on?
> >>
> >> ?
> >>
> >> Noel
> >>
> >> ?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> To change your email address, visit
> >> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> >>
> >> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> >> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> >> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> >> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 6
> >> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 10:11:03 -0600
> >> From: Dennis Martin <dennis.doc at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Elevator cuff
> >> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> >> Message-ID:
> >> <638df660903250911r1a7ea549jb06aae6bee4eeae8 at mail.gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >>
> >> Evidence clearly supports removing the cuff. There is a compromise. Alan
> >> Shaw, who built my canard, told me to remove half of the cuff on each
> >> elevator. I did that a couple of years ago, so I'll try flying with
> >> 50% cuff
> >> and see how it works.
> >>
> >> Dennis
> >>
> >> On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 9:40 AM, <nmflyer1 at aol.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I've asked about this as well. The consensus I have received back is
> >>> that
> >>> it is best to leave them off. I was told this will lower the stall
> >>> speed of
> >>> the canard. It will also make the "pitch buck" once it does stall more
> >>> pronounced. I think I was told that it helps elevator authority when
> >>> slow as
> >>> well.
> >>>
> >>> Kurt
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: gattenby at tulsaconnect.com
> >>> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> >>> Sent: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 8:41 am
> >>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Elevator cuff
> >>>
> >>> I've looked through the archives for a while. (any way to do a
> >>> search?)
> >>> for info on the elevator cuffs.
> >>> I didn't find anything, I know it's been discussed...
> >>>
> >>> My 2000 suv kit came with the cuffs, the new manuals don't mention
> >>> them.
> >>> Some builder sites have pictures of putting them on, some don't.
> >>>
> >>> What's the general thought on putting them on?
> >>>
> >>> Noel
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> To change your email address, visit
> >>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> >>>
> >>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> >>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> >>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> >>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------
> >>> Need a job? Find employment help in your
> >>> area<http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlweusyelp00000002>
> >>>
> >>> .
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> To change your email address, visit
> >>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> >>>
> >>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> >>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> >>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> >>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> All the best,
> >> Dennis
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose
> >>
> >> End of Reflector Digest, Vol 58, Issue 52
> >> *****************************************
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > To change your email address, visit
> > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> >
> > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
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> > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
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