REFLECTOR: CSA

Andrew Ellzey ajlz72756 at yahoo.com
Fri Jun 12 09:51:01 CDT 2009


Chuck Jensen wrote: "Life is too short....to spend it with boorish people."
 
Very good point Chuck, my sentiments exactly.
 
Andy




________________________________
From: Chuck Jensen <cjensen at dts9000.com>
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 6:59:06 AM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: CSA


Maybe I don't get out much, but I've seen no vitriole between the different groups.  Sure, some good natured ribbing...and the ribbing always has a little extra zing to it if there is an element of truth behind it, but that doesn't make it intentionally mean or hurtful.
 
Kind of like the old John Deere v. International, Mopar v. the world, Stewart v. Gordan, Ford v. Chevy arguments.  I remember a take off on the old anti-drinking commercial, 'friends, don't let friends, drive Fords'.
 
There may be a mouth-breather or two out there that take themselves too seriously that want to make a Cozi of themselves, but those are the type that when they get started, you look at your watch, as though you have some place else you need to be (which is true), and excuse yourself.  Life is too short....to spend it with boorish people.
 
Chuck Jensen 
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Barnes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:47 PM
To: Velocity Reflector
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: CSA


Hi Andy, 

   I didn't mean second hand for you: it's second hand to me as you passed it along, and I guessed the rude guy with the "insult" could have downed a beer. And I guess you weren't targetting CSA: somehow CSA got wrapped into the thread so I wanted to set the record straight.  It was at Rough River, which is an event I've yet to behold - always seem to have a conflicting Young Eagle event or Chapter picnic on those days.

   It's important to avoid stereotyping any 'class' of people. I personally don't know any LEZ or COZY driver that truly begrudges the after market buyer or kit builder, although I know plenty in online forums that can be sucked into a similiar "class" argument with the right bait. It just scares me when a few of us sound like we are actually taking it seriously. 

    If some of us come back and say, "Well I know of some guys who think or talk like that", I still won't buy into the concept that somehow I'm being victimized by it. 

    I've caught a wisp or two of envy at the relative ease of entry into the experimental arena that decades of kit evolution have brought about. I can certainly understand a scratchbuilder's pride of building, just as I can understand a kit builder/buyer pride of building/ownership. 

   I disagree with the claims:  "The guy that designs and builds his own plane looks at other builders as lemmings.  The plans builder looks at the kit builder as a cheater.  The kit builder is a suave, good hearted person with a great sense of life balance and is usually ahead of the curve intellectually.  The guy that buys a flying Experimental looks at all of us as a bunch of hard core nut jobs". 

     While I can jest at the stereotyping, I don't accept it as fact at someone's say so nor endorse continuing it. From the humor side of it, I loved Scott Baker's homebuilder anecdotes. But I've never been ostrecized for owning a Velocity kit, although I'm a bit sensitive to the personal "failure" of not having built it and I suppose I could imagine many a builder would see me as a whimp.  I guess our perceptions have a lot to do with what we are sensitive about, regardless of their factual merit.

    You are to be applauded for the effort and wonder of the Velocity cookout you've hosted and the hard word you've put in. Perhaps in later years schedules could synchronize to accomodate a broader range of really worthy events - after all, the prices and company are the best to be had in all of Oshkosh - and you're event is absolutely top shelf. 

     I certainly agree that all planes are beautiful (most all anyway, seen Rutan's CM-144 ?), and you'll be done before me - so I'll be asking you for the ride.

     See you at OSH, and I'll RSVP if I know I'll be in on Wednesday.


Regards,

Jeff Barnes
847-331-2567

--- On Thu, 6/11/09, Andy Millin <amillin at sbcglobal.net> wrote:


From: Andy Millin <amillin at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: CSA
To: jcbarnes411 at sbcglobal.net, "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 4:29 PM


Hey Jeff,
 
>>  based on the second-hand remark of 1 person (who may or may not have put away a beer or two - I don't know the specific circumstance). Is that a fair judgement to make ?  
  
Not second hand, first hand; and  I really don’t drink and so would not have had beer, wine or other… 
  
>>   ACTUALLY, is there a compelling reason the Velocity cookout couldn't be held on Tuesday so we could all enjoy both cookouts (and still get to Vision of Eagles on Thursday nite) ? 
  
I really can’t do that.  I put the announcement out over a month ago and have taken many RSVPs.  I put the information out early so people can make plans.  Also so I could make my plans.  Putting on a cookout 300 miles from home is not a trivial task. 
  
Every year it is a challenge as I believe everyone would like to make it to the cookout.  There are always a number of people that will be leaving before  --or--  arriving too late to attend.  Changing the date would not be fair.  I would not expect the CSA to change their date to accommodate us either.  They have plans. 
  
My comments on this subject were aimed at the class differences within the canard community.  They were never directed at the CSA.  As far as I know it is a wonderful organization. 
  
Class differences are not unique to canards.  The guy that designs and builds his own plane looks at other builders as lemmings.  The plans builder looks at the kit builder as a cheater.  The kit builder is a suave, good hearted person with a great sense of life balance and is usually ahead of the curve intellectually.  The guy that buys a flying Experimental looks at all of us as a bunch of hard core nut jobs. 
  
I’m sure the same thing exits between the 152, 172 and 182 drivers. 
  
As for me, I think all airplanes are beautiful.  Please give me a ride! 
  
Andy 
  
  
From:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of jcbarnes411 at sbcglobal.net
Sent: 06-11-2009 4:28
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Cc: Jshuber at juno.com
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: CSA
  
Hi Folks,
 
         I'm pleased Lou went to the length he did to set the record straight, and glad Terry was able to respond as well as he did. I've been following this thread and thought Lou was starting to sound like a voice in the wilderness - he'd be saying all this good stuff, and no-one even acknowledged it. If you don't already know, I believe Terry held non-turbo altitude record for class (in a LEZ) before Jim Wright (also a LEZ) took it over. 
 
        Some folks have expressed a strong negative bias against a great group of fellow aviators based on the second-hand remark of 1 person (who may or may not have put away a beer or two - I don't know the specific circumstance). Is that a fair judgement to make ?  
 
       Granted, some of the commentary has been very funny, but certainly not to be taken seriously.
 
        I've been a CSA member as long as I've been a Velocity owner, though I missed paying the dues for a year or two here and there.  That membership was on the express recommendation from Duane Swing and the factory itself. CSA is a great family, especially if you are downed in some foriegn airfield. 
 
        Thanks to CSA and relationships built up from canard-aviators yahoo group, when Rene Dugas was down in Billings MT, I was able to get a LEZ builder and A&P just a 2 hour flight away from Rene to be on deck in case he needed supplies or assistance.  He didn't need it, but you never know when you'll need a die grinder, some glass or carbon wraps and a couple jugs of West Systems or EZ-poxy.
 
        When Rich Guerra cracked a nose gear gusset at OSH who came to his aid ?  Steve Beert, co-chair of the Oshkosh ermergency repair center, former President of Iowa EAA Chapter 75, LEZ builder and CSA member.
 
        Thanks to yahoo group canard-aviators, a de facto extension of CSA, downed Israeli Cozy pilot in Iceland nearly had a new landing gear hand-delivered by ferry pilots out of Bangor Maine, though at last minute he opted for Federal express as a sure thing, even though they couldn't get there until a day later than the ferry pilot could.
 
        They also have a big hand in the Kanud Utah air races, Fuel Venture, Canards de Mayo, Jakpot, etc, places sorely needing greater Velocity participation, and exactly the places you guys would want as fly-out destinations. I haven't done the math, but I haven't seen any clear reason a Velocity couldn't win a Fuel-Venture.
 
        So if you think the CSA is just about hot dogs and hamburgers at Oshkosh with some guys in wimpier aircraft in a time slot conflicting with the great Annual Velocity Cookout tha Andy has been hosting, think again. They also server chili, chips, and sodas !  
 
       ACTUALLY, is there a compelling reason the Velocity cookout couldn't be held on Tuesday so we could all enjoy both cookouts (and still get to Vision of Eagles on Thursday nite) ?
 
       Last year I made the CSA cookout, the Ford Chapter Presidents reception (they hand out good swag - somebody want to be my date this year ?), and finally the Velocity cookout (after missing all prior years). I was pretty well fed, but had to miss the Wednesday Young Eagle Awards ceremony at the museum - something I otherwise could have made if 1 of the other 3 had been scheduled on Tuesday or Thursday.
        I love both cookouts, but the CSA cookout has the added benefits that the Aviation Explorers do the cooking and get their tip jar filled, but moreover, a dedicated group of 14 to 21 year olds that do our aircraft parking can mingle shoulder to shoulder with a seasoned gang of aviators who enjoy passing down their wisdom. 
 
        If you're a young eagle pilot like me, you'll see the Aviation Explorer program is one of the missing links to the question of where do the kids go after their Young Eagle flights. If you want to get behind the Aviation Explorer program, you can do so and get a belly full of dogs and beans at the same time, Of course, you could also call your local BSA and help start up or sponser a post. 
 
       Anyway, if you believe the next generation might be the only thing protecting and preserving your right to fly in 5 or 10 years, you might see a CSA membership (or just a plate of beans at their cookout) as a great way to move that along.
 
       Whether we adjust the Velocity cookout schedule or not, Andy has already gotten the vindication he deserves from CSA founder Terry Shubert himself, and I hope we can all take up the initation to join and support the CSA. And I haven't even got started on Rough River or a Rutan birthday party yet.
 
        I know you're asking yourself how do I join the CSA ? Send a $30 check to Terry Shubert, 9283 Lindbergh Blvd, Olmsted Falls OHIO 44138, or you can pay-pal $35 from links off of www.ez.org.
 
 
Regards,
 
Jeff Barnes
Velocity XL-RG virgin for sale
847-331-2567 cell
Pres, EAA Chapter 414
 
 
 

--- On Wed, 6/10/09, Lou Stedman <stedmanlou at roadrunner.com> wrote:

From: Lou Stedman <stedmanlou at roadrunner.com>
Subject: REFLECTOR: CSA
To: "Reflector Velocity" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 9:55 PM 
Hi Guys
I shared some of your constructive criticisms about the EZ group with Terry Schubert who is the editor of the Central States Association newsletter. Here is his response.
 
I can see why some Velocity folks have been offended/disappointed by their treatment. I am disappointed but not surprised.  Every group has associates who could improve on their substandard social skills. I can think of a few who would fit the disappointing communication pattern you cited. Fortunately, those are a small minority of the plans built canard family, I assure you. 
Rough River is a CSA sponsored event and is open to ALL canard enthusiasts.  Many non-members show up each year.  They are all welcome and treated the same as supporting CSA members.  Some guests disappoint and I am sorry Velocity people or anyone else was subjected to any rude treatment.
Fortunately the vast majority of CSA people realize we are all canard pusher enthusiasts and can profit by working together.  More than a few plans built canard pusher owners are now Velocity owners.  I prefer to think we are all driven by the same thing but have different ways of achieving the same goals. That is healthy.  We can learn from each other.
I wish to invite Velocity enthusiasts to consider Central States Association membership.  EZ-Taxi and Canard Club programs help travelers in need and increase inner organization communication.
The 34 page quarterly newsletter is filled with maintenance, modification, piloting techniques, travel experiences as well as other canard use items of interest.  The world wide membership also allows for great diversity in solving canard operation challenges.  You may be interested in perusing the nearly 5000 article titles from past newsletters in the attached searchable index.
I wish to invite you also to attend our OSH cookout held on Wed July 29 at 5:30-7 PM at the north end of OSH parking.  Contact me for directions. jschuber at juno.com  The cookout is hosted by the Air Explorer post scouts that help park the OSH  arriving airplanes.  A $5 donation to the Explorer post is expected from each attendee.  The canard company is fun and you have a chance to win a door prize.  
For further information on problems such as understanding pusher cooling and learning what DOES WORK perhaps you'd like to download the free Pusher Cooling forum that was given at OSH.  It is available in PowerPoint with MP-3 file for audio.  Go to EZ.org for pictures, related downloads and information on joining CSA.  Should you wish to look at past pictures from CSA Newsletters and want the issue password please contact me. jschuber at juno.com  
New drag reduction ideas are constantly being worked on by the membership and they are offered in the newsletter.  Many of the typical pusher problems have known solutions.  Many are illustrated in the newsletter.
Please consider looking at CSA.  I am sure closer association will benefit us all.
Fly safely,
Terry Schubert
Lou Stedman
Velocity N7044Q
Olean, NY

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