REFLECTOR: IVO motor
John Dibble
aminetech at bluefrog.com
Wed Jul 8 12:17:50 CDT 2009
Thanks Larry. Glad you're still thinking on it as I'm still looking for
answers. My brushes worked perfect for 8 years/700 hours, so I'm
thinking it might be something else. I've decided to send the motor
in. I was told that I don't need to send the crush plates. Guess I'll
find out when I take it apart today.
For the first time in 6 years since I got my velo, I'll be taking a
c-c-c-c-c-c, so hard to say, c-c-mercial flight (ugh) from NY to MS with
2 c-c-c-c-c-nections (2x ugh).
John
Laurence Coen wrote:
> John, I hate to have to say this but if you talked to the same person
> that I talked to the last time I had a problem, then you were talking
> to an idiot. He insisted that the lead screw bearing (steel) was part
> of the crush plate (aluminum). I had to call Ivo in Utah to get
> things sorted out. Yes, bigger brushes should be better but the
> problem is not brush size. Power is not getting from the wire
> connection to the brush. Not knowing what's inside your brush holder
> I can't offer any help as to just what is the problem. The IVO
> brushes work fine for me and others using them. IVO uses graphite
> brushes like just like yours. Larry CoenN136LC
>
> From: John Dibble
> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 1:56 PMTo: Velocity Aircraft Owners and
> Builders listSubject: Re: REFLECTOR: IVO motor
> Thanks for checking your brushes. I've seen the IVO brushes and
> unless they've changed them in the last few years, they are very small
> ~3/16 x3/16. A brush supplier told me that brushes carry current at
> 80 amps/square inch. It seems like a larger brush is needed. Mine
> are 1/4 x 3/8 which should be much better, but maybe there is
> something special about the IVO brushes. I called IVO yesterday.
> They glossed over my diagnostic data and told me it sounded like the
> motor brushes (not the slip ring brushes) were worn and I should send
> in the motor. I'll call them again today and discuss the brushes.
>
> John
>
> Laurence Coen wrote:
>
>> John, I went to the hanger yesterday and measured the voltage drop
>> across the brush holder and slip ring. My current limiter shuts off
>> power at 25 amps and this gives a drop of two volts. Your
>> description of your brushes would indicate that you're not using the
>> IVO supplied set. It is also obvious that there is a problem with
>> your current brush system not the motor. The motor does draw a lot
>> of current when it runs against the stop but that is normal. You
>> said previously that you were showing about 5 amps when the motor
>> stalled. That is not normal. It should be in excess of 30 amps but
>> is being limited by your brushes. I'll say it again, get a brush
>> holder from IVO. On your oil pressure and temp. The fact that you
>> are measuring these values at a non standard location, any
>> comparison with anybody else that is using the factory recommended
>> location, isn't valid. I'll tell you quite frankly that I have no
>> idea what my pressure and temp at the oil cooler outlet might be.
>> Larry CoenN136LC
>>
>> From: John Dibble
>> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 12:24 PMTo: Velocity Aircraft Owners and
>> Builders listSubject: Re: REFLECTOR: IVO motor
>> Larry,
>> I agree that the problem seems to be with the brushes. I applied 12
>> v to the rings and the motor ran fine. However, I just replaced one
>> of the brushes and it still gives a 5 v drop between where the wire
>> is soldered to the brush holder and the slip ring. Have you or
>> anyone else measured this voltage drop? Maybe the motor is drawing
>> a lot of current near the stops. I think I'll use the battery
>> charger on the rings again and note the current as it approaches the
>> stop
>>
>> My oil pressure and temperature sensors are right at the cooler
>> outlet. I know they should be at the inlet to the engine, but that
>> is where the builder put them. Anyway, the temp I'm seeing is not a
>> mixture of cooled and bypassed oil as you suggested. At what oil
>> pressure (for the normal spring) would oil be bypassed around the
>> cooler? Do I understand correctly that this is a high pressure
>> which only occurs when the oil is cold?
>>
>> John
>>
>> Laurence Coen wrote:
>>
>> > John, You previously stated that you had a 5 volt drop across each
>> > brush with the motor stalled. The drop should be closer to 0.1
>> > volt. Before you ship off your motor I would suggest that you
>> > apply 12 volts directly to the slip rings to see if the motor will
>> > run to the stop. If it does I would recommend that you order a new
>> > brush holder with new brushes. If I remember correctly it only
>> > cost about $12. With your current set up you're only getting 2
>> > volts to the motor so you can't fault it for not doing its job. My
>> > oil pressure runs about 50 psi in flight with an oil temp of 190
>> > F. The stiffer spring Mike mentioned is not the spring that sets
>> > oil pressure but is the one that sets the opening pressure of the
>> > bypass. This is why your temp went up when you raised the oil
>> > pressure. The higher oil pressure opened the bypass and and thus
>> > bypassed the oil cooler. The bypass valve determines how much oil
>> > goes through the oil cooler. When you raised the pressure the
>> > total flow increased but not the flow through the oil cooler. The
>> > temp sensor is then seeing the mixture of hot oil coming from the
>> > bypass and cool oil from the cooler. I think the cure would be to
>> > have the stiffer bypass spring and put back the washers on the
>> > pressure side. Larry CoenN136LC
>> >
>> > From: John Dibble
>> > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 11:59 AMTo: Velocity Aircraft Owners
>> > and Builders listSubject: Re: REFLECTOR: IVO motor
>> > I used the sandpaper. Looks like all that came off was carbon. I
>> > also cleaned the slip rings very well. No change in performance.
>> > One thing that adds to the problem is that my blades are 1"
>> > shorter, so more pitch change is needed. However, I had no
>> > problems when the blades were first shortened. Guess I'll have to
>> > send the motor in for inspection/repair. Anyone know what type of
>> > repair to expect? Can a local motor repair shop do the work?
>> >
>> > John
>> >
>> > Laurence Coen wrote:
>> >
>> >> John, If you made the measurements from the wire connector to
>> >> the slip ring there are three places that the drop could be
>> >> taking place. They are the wire to brush, the brush to brush
>> >> terminal and the brush to slip ring. Since both brushes have the
>> >> same drop it is unlikely that both would develop a bad wiring
>> >> connection at the same time. I would suspect the brush to slip
>> >> ring and since you cleaned the slip rings that leaves the
>> >> brushes. Slip some fine sandpaper between the brushes and the
>> >> slip rings (grit towards the brushes) and sand off the surface.
>> >> If there is a layer of burnt oil due to arcing at the brushes,
>> >> this should solve your problem. Larry CoenN136LC
>> >>
>> >> From: John Dibble
>> >> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 6:59 AMTo: Velocity Aircraft Owners
>> >> and Builders listSubject: Re: REFLECTOR: IVO motor
>> >> I've cleaned the rings and still unable to reach the pitch
>> >> limits. My rings always have a little oil on them and I have
>> >> never cleaned them before. I measured the voltage drop across
>> >> the brushes. For each brush the drop is <1 volt in the middle of
>> >> pitch travel increasing to 5 volts approaching the limit. Does
>> >> anyone else have this data that I can compare with?
>> >>
>> >> John
>> >>
>> >> Michael Watson wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > John,
>> >> >
>> >> > I?ve been using the original brushes supplied by IVO for ten
>> >> > years now and
>> >> > really haven?t had a problem with them. One problem I have
>> >> > run into, is that
>> >> > the rings being in the back, develop a coat of oil which
>> >> > increases the resistance
>> >> > of the brushes, the amount of time required to change the pitch
>> >> > through it?s cycle
>> >> > increases. A quick cleaning of the rings and brushes with MEK
>> >> > usually solve
>> >> > that problem.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 12:32 PM, John
>> >> > Dibble ?aminetech at bluefrog.com? wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > I think the ones supplied by IVO are too small. Mine
>> >> > are 1/4x3/8?.
>> >> >
>> >> > John
>> >> >
>> >> > Michael Watson wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > Same as the originals. I will measure this Saturday
>> >> > > and let you know,
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 2:17 PM, John
>> >> > > Dibble ?aminetech at bluefrog.com? wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > What size (cross section) are the
>> >> > > brushes? I bought some replacement
>> >> > > cartridges that fit my holder.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > John
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Michael Watson wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > JOHN,IVO sells a new clear transparent
>> >> > > > brush holder. You can visually check
>> >> > > > the brushes while doing your walk
>> >> > > > around. I have 20 hrs. using it. Works
>> >> > > > great.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 3:01
>> >> > > > PM, ?aminetech at bluefrog.com? wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > I touched the slip rings with
>> >> > > > the leads from a battery
>> >> > > > charger and the motor ran
>> >> > > > robustly in both directions.
>> >> > > > Then, while operating the
>> >> > > > switch, I measured the volts
>> >> > > > at the leads to the brushes
>> >> > > > and saw 10 volts. So the
>> >> > > > problem is with the brushes.
>> >> > > > I have large brushes that I
>> >> > > > believe are the correct size.
>> >> > > > I just replaced one because it
>> >> > > > was almost worn off. (I broke
>> >> > > > off a large part of it a few
>> >> > > > years ago). The other one
>> >> > > > still has a lot of brush left,
>> >> > > > but maybe I need to replace
>> >> > > > that one as well. At least I
>> >> > > > don?t have to mess with the
>> >> > > > motor.Thanks for all the help.
>> >> > > > John--- mikewatsspg at gmail.com
>> >> > > > wrote:From: Michael Watson
>> >> > > > ?mikewatsspg at gmail.com?
>> >> > > > To: Velocity Aircraft Owners
>> >> > > > and Builders list
>> >> > > > ?reflector at tvbf.org?
>> >> > > > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: IVO
>> >> > > > motorDate: Sun, 21 Jun 2009
>> >> > > > 13:21:22 -0400
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > John,
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > I have been following this
>> >> > > > thread and Larry have given
>> >> > > > you great advise.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Try this. Remove the clips
>> >> > > > from the top of the brush
>> >> > > > Assy. Connect
>> >> > > > the leads from a 10~25A
>> >> > > > battery charger to the top of
>> >> > > > the Assy one way
>> >> > > > + Red to one brush - Black to
>> >> > > > the other. the motor should
>> >> > > > run to the
>> >> > > > max of one pitch setting,
>> >> > > > reverse the leads from the
>> >> > > > charger, and the
>> >> > > > motor should run until the
>> >> > > > prop reaches the max opposite
>> >> > > > pitch.
>> >> > > > During the runs, the current
>> >> > > > reading on the charger should
>> >> > > > read
>> >> > > > between 8 to 12 Amps.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > If the above works, then the
>> >> > > > motor and drive system (worm
>> >> > > > gear) is ok.
>> >> > > > I regularly do this to make
>> >> > > > sure all is OK back there.
>> >> > > > Good Luck.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 11:35
>> >> > > > AM, ?aminetech at bluefrog.com?
>> >> > > > wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > I?m not sure if my
>> >> > > > IVO current is
>> >> > > > measured by the
>> >> > > > engine monitor, but
>> >> > > > I do see about a 5
>> >> > > > amp increase with
>> >> > > > the switch on. I
>> >> > > > measured the volts
>> >> > > > across the contact
>> >> > > > rings and got 1.7 v
>> >> > > > when switching to
>> >> > > > fine pitch (end of
>> >> > > > travel) and 3.5 v
>> >> > > > when switching to
>> >> > > > coarse pitch (pitch
>> >> > > > changing). These
>> >> > > > numbers seem low.
>> >> > > > What should they be?
>> >> > > > John---
>> >> > > > lwcoen at hotmail.com
>> >> > > > wrote:From:
>> >> > > > ?Laurence Coen?
>> >> > > > ?lwcoen at hotmail.com?
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > To: ?Velocity
>> >> > > > Aircraft Owners and
>> >> > > > Builders list?
>> >> > > > ?reflector at tvbf.org?
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Subject: Re:
>> >> > > > REFLECTOR: IVO motor
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Date: Sat, 20 Jun
>> >> > > > 2009 18:13:38 -0500
>> >> > > > John, No you
>> >> > > > can?t. The crush
>> >> > > > plates, lead screw
>> >> > > > and cam bobbin all
>> >> > > > need to be returned
>> >> > > > for repair. The
>> >> > > > blades do not have
>> >> > > > to be shipped.Larry
>> >> > > > CoenN136LC
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > F
>> >> > > > om:aminetech at bluefrog.comSent:
>> >> > > > Saturday, June 20,
>> >> > > > 2009 5:31 PMTo:
>> >> > > > Velocity Aircraft
>> >> > > > Owners and Builders
>> >> > > > listSubject: Re:
>> >> > > > REFLECTOR: IVO motor
>> >> > > > I?ll try to check
>> >> > > > the current. Can
>> >> > > > the motor be removed
>> >> > > > without removing the
>> >> > > > blades?---
>> >> > > > lwcoen at hotmail.com
>> >> > > > wrote:From:
>> >> > > > ?Laurence Coen?
>> >> > > > ?lwcoen at hotmail.com?
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > To: ?Velocity
>> >> > > > Aircraft Owners and
>> >> > > > Builders list?
>> >> > > > ?reflector at tvbf.org?
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Subject: Re:
>> >> > > > REFLECTOR: IVO motor
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Date: Sat, 20 Jun
>> >> > > > 2009 13:06:48 -0500
>> >> > > > John, I had the
>> >> > > > same thing happen to
>> >> > > > me. In my case the
>> >> > > > motor was taking
>> >> > > > excessive current.
>> >> > > > When the prop passes
>> >> > > > thru the neutral
>> >> > > > position, the motor
>> >> > > > should take about 2
>> >> > > > amps. Mine was
>> >> > > > taking 20 amps and
>> >> > > > would stall before
>> >> > > > getting to the
>> >> > > > stops. You can
>> >> > > > check this by
>> >> > > > running the prop
>> >> > > > pitch with the
>> >> > > > engine stopped and
>> >> > > > watching the
>> >> > > > ammeter. It took
>> >> > > > three trips back to
>> >> > > > the factory to get
>> >> > > > it fixed and I?m
>> >> > > > still keeping my
>> >> > > > fingers crossed. I
>> >> > > > also talked with Ivo
>> >> > > > himself several
>> >> > > > times. He is
>> >> > > > currently living in
>> >> > > > the middle of
>> >> > > > nowhere Utah. I
>> >> > > > never liked the idea
>> >> > > > of the mechanical
>> >> > > > stops that simply
>> >> > > > stall the motor and
>> >> > > > the only way you
>> >> > > > know you have
>> >> > > > reached the limit is
>> >> > > > when the breaker
>> >> > > > pops. The current
>> >> > > > rises very rapidly
>> >> > > > when you get to the
>> >> > > > stop. I designed a
>> >> > > > current limiter
>> >> > > > circuit that shuts
>> >> > > > off the motor before
>> >> > > > it stalls and turns
>> >> > > > on a light to let
>> >> > > > you know that you
>> >> > > > are at the limit.
>> >> > > > It seems to be
>> >> > > > working well. Larry
>> >> > > > CoenN136LC
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > F
>> >> > > > om:aminetech at bluefrog.comSent:
>> >> > > > Saturday, June 20,
>> >> > > > 2009 8:56 AMTo:
>> >> > > > Velocity Aircraft
>> >> > > > Owners and Builders
>> >> > > > listSubject:
>> >> > > > REFLECTOR: IVO motor
>> >> > > > After a few hours in
>> >> > > > the TN summer heat,
>> >> > > > my engine was back
>> >> > > > together and running
>> >> > > > well again. I made
>> >> > > > it to NY the same
>> >> > > > day in spite of T/S
>> >> > > > approaching from the
>> >> > > > west. My skills at
>> >> > > > negotiating around
>> >> > > > weather are
>> >> > > > improving, I just
>> >> > > > don?t like this
>> >> > > > learning
>> >> > > > process...Anyway, on
>> >> > > > to the next to do.
>> >> > > > I am unable to
>> >> > > > adjust my IVO pitch
>> >> > > > to either full
>> >> > > > extreme. Is there a
>> >> > > > way I can check the
>> >> > > > voltage at the motor
>> >> > > > to see it it?s a
>> >> > > > poor connection, or
>> >> > > > the motor itself?
>> >> > > > John
>> >> > > > ---------------------
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > _______________________________________________
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > To change your email
>> >> > > > address, visit
>> >> > > > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Visit the gallery!
>> >> > > > www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > user:pw =
>> >> > > > tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> >> > > > Check new archives:
>> >> > > > www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Check old archives:
>> >> > > > http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>> >> > > > _______________________________________________
>> >> > > > To change your email
>> >> > > > address, visit
>> >> > > > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> >> > > > Visit the gallery!
>> >> > > > www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> >> > > > user:pw =
>> >> > > > tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> >> > > > Check new archives:
>> >> > > > www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> >> > > > Check old archives:
>> >> > > > http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>> >> > > > ---------------------
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > _______________________________________________
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > To change your email
>> >> > > > address, visit
>> >> > > > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Visit the gallery!
>> >> > > > www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > user:pw =
>> >> > > > tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> >> > > > Check new archives:
>> >> > > > www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Check old archives:
>> >> > > > http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>> >> > > > _______________________________________________
>> >> > > > To change your email
>> >> > > > address, visit
>> >> > > > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> >> > > > Visit the gallery!
>> >> > > > www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> >> > > > user:pw =
>> >> > > > tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> >> > > > Check new archives:
>> >> > > > www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> >> > > > Check old archives:
>> >> > > > http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > _______________________________________________
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > To change your email
>> >> > > > address, visit
>> >> > > > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Visit the gallery!
>> >> > > > www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > user:pw =
>> >> > > > tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> >> > > > Check new archives:
>> >> > > > www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Check old archives:
>> >> > > > http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > --
>> >> > > > Mike W.
>> >> > > > 1997 Velocity Elite RG
>> >> > > > Franklin /IVO Electric CS
>> >> > > > Dual GRT EFIS Synthetic
>> >> > > > Vision_______________________________________________
>> >> > > > To change your email address,
>> >> > > > visit
>> >> > > > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> >> > > > Visit the gallery!
>> >> > > > www.tvbf.org/gallery user:pw =
>> >> > > > tvbf:jamaicangoose Check new
>> >> > > > archives:
>> >> > > > www.tvbf.org/pipermail Check
>> >> > > > old archives:
>> >> > > > http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > _______________________________________________
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > To change your email address,
>> >> > > > visit
>> >> > > > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Visit the gallery!
>> >> > > > www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> >> > > > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> >> > > > Check new archives:
>> >> > > > www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> >> > > > Check old archives:
>> >> > > > http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > --
>> >> > > > Mike W.
>> >> > > > 1997 Velocity Elite RG
>> >> > > > Franklin /IVO Electric CS
>> >> > > > Dual GRT EFIS Synthetic Vision
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > -------------------------------------
>> >> > > > _______________________________________________
>> >> > > > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> >> > > > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> >> > > > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> >> > > > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > -------------------------------------
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>> >> > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>> >> > > > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.12.45/2141 - Release Date: 5/29/2009 6:28 AM
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > _______________________________________________
>> >> > >
>> >> > > To change your email address, visit
>> >> > > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> >> > > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> >> > > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Check old archives:
>> >> > > http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > --
>> >> > > Mike W.
>> >> > > 1997 Velocity Elite RG
>> >> > > Franklin /IVO Electric CS
>> >> > > Dual GRT EFIS Synthetic Vision
>> >> > >
>> >> > > -----------------------------------------------
>> >> > > _______________________________________________
>> >> > > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> >> > > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> >> > > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> >> > > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>> >> > >
>> >> > > -----------------------------------------------
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>> >> > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>> >> > > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.12.45/2141 - Release Date: 5/29/2009 6:28 AM
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > To change your email address, visit
>> >> > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> >> >
>> >> > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> >> > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> >> > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> >> > Check old archives:
>> >> > http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Mike W.
>> >> > 1997 Velocity Elite RG
>> >> > Franklin /IVO Electric CS
>> >> > Dual GRT EFIS Synthetic Vision
>> >> >
>> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > To change your email address, visit
>> >> > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> >> >
>> >> > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> >> > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> >> > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> >> > Check old archives:
>> >> > http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>> >> >
>> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> > Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>> >> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>> >> > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.12.45/2141 - Release
>> >> > Date: 5/29/2009 6:28 AM
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> To change your email address, visit
>> >> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> >>
>> >> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> >> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> >> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> >> Check old archives:
>> >> http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>> >>
>> >> -----------------------------------------------------------
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> To change your email address, visit
>> >> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> >>
>> >> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> >> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> >> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> >> Check old archives:
>> >> http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>> >>
>> >> -----------------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>> >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>> >> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.12.45/2141 - Release Date:
>> >> 5/29/2009 6:28 AM
>> >>
>> >>
>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > To change your email address, visit
>> > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> >
>> > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> > Check old archives:
>> > http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>> >
>> > -------------------------------------------------------------
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > To change your email address, visit
>> > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> >
>> > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> > Check old archives:
>> > http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>> >
>> > -------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>> > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.12.45/2141 - Release Date:
>> > 5/29/2009 6:28 AM
>> >
>> >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>
>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> Check old archives:
>> http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>
>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> Check old archives:
>> http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.12.45/2141 - Release Date:
>> 5/29/2009 6:28 AM
>>
>>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives:
> http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives:
> http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.12.45/2141 - Release Date:
> 5/29/2009 6:28 AM
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/private/reflector/attachments/20090708/32eade7a/attachment-0001.htm>
More information about the Reflector
mailing list