REFLECTOR: Static RPM

nmflyer1 at aol.com nmflyer1 at aol.com
Wed Aug 19 10:55:48 CDT 2009


Jerry, 



I?forgot that you were flying out of Granby. Thanks for the number! ?I was wondering how my setup would do, not only at home, but in Gunnison where I have to go a couple times a month. Sounds like my 173 FGE, with 340HP V-6 and a 76" Ivo Magnum will do ok. Always good to hear from someone else who flies the same DA places I do. 

Thanks.



Kurt 


-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Teitsma <jerryteits at comcast.net>
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Sent: Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:28 am
Subject: REFLECTOR: Static RPM



I fly out of Granby - Field elevation 8200 and change. I have a Franklin engine with an IVO Prop (FG). I can only get about 2400 RPM on static run up. It takes about 2200 ft for TO and about 2500 ft. on landing. density altitude is typically 9-10,000 ft. unless it is a nice cold morning. I always lean as others have indicated. At 10,000 ft, I lean again. Hope this helps. JT?
?
Jerry Teitsma?
PO Box 796, Granby CO 80446?
970-887-3910 (Phone/Fax)?
jerryteits at comcast.net?
?
----- Original Message ----- From: <reflector-request at tvbf.org>?
To: <reflector at tvbf.org>?
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 8:22 AM?
Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 63, Issue 57?
?
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> Today's Topics:?
>?
> 1. Re: Static RPM Question (Al Gietzen)?
> 2. Re: Static RPM Question ( Brett Ferrell )?
> 3. Leaning at High DA Airports; was Re: Static RPM Question?
> (Scott Derrick)?
> 4. Re: Leaning at High DA Airports; was Re: Static RPM?
> Question (Terry Miles)?
> 5. Re: Leaning at High DA Airports; was Re: Static RPM?
> Question (Chuck Jensen)?
> 6. Re: Leaning at High DA Airports; was Re: Static RPM?
> Question (Scott Derrick)?
>?
>?
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------?
>?
> Message: 1?
> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:14:31 -0800?
> From: "Al Gietzen" <ALVentures at cox.net>?
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Static RPM Question?
> To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'"?
> <reflector at tvbf.org>?
> Message-ID: <DBD7CB9524E643669503E1D6B2AC7B7A at BigAl>?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"?
>?
>?
>?
> Thanks. I was aware of the effect on HP. I was wondering if the > decreased?
> air density made spinning the prop easier and if it would compensate.?
>?
>?
>?
> John?
>?
> Yes; the prop also spins easier; but the power decrease is directly?
> proportional to the density; whereas the prop drag goes as the cube root; > or?
> some such; so the power loss wins.?
>?
>?
>?
> Al?
>?
>?
>?
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> ------------------------------?
>?
> Message: 2?
> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:34:32 -0500?
> From: " Brett Ferrell " <reflector at velocityxl.com>?
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Static RPM Question?
> To: "reflector" <reflector at tvbf.org>?
> Message-ID: <20090818213432.15211.qmail at s214.sureserver.com>?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"?
>?
> As a reminder, the Koch (and crosswind charts) are available on the wiki?
>?
> http://wiki.velocityxl.com/index.php?title=Articles#Other?
>?
> Brett?
>?
>?
> ------------------------------?
>?
> Message: 3?
> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:05:23 -0600?
> From: Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net>?
> Subject: REFLECTOR: Leaning at High DA Airports; was Re: Static RPM?
> Question?
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>?
> Message-ID: <4A8B25A3.5050905 at tnstaafl.net>?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"?
>?
> Never ever forget to lean a non-turbo charged airplane at high density?
> altitude airports!! We have two crashes at GNT in 10 years that?
> probably would not have happened if the pilots had leaned the engine.?
>?
> I was there for one and kept thinking "Lean it out! Lean it out!" but he?
> crashed instead. The engine will run like SHIT, if you don't!?
>?
> In the summer afternoons in northern NM, just about every airport is?
> above 8,000 DA, and some like GNT are pushing 10,000. The DA is so high?
> you can't hurt the engine with full power and lean to max RPM, because?
> the engine is making way less than 75% power.?
>?
> If your a bit paranoid about it or DA is 6-8K, lean to best RPM, then?
> richen to get about 25-50 RPM drop., no more than that though. Once?
> your 500-1000 above ground level you can richen the mixture some to get?
> some cooling if you need it. Better yet go to 75 LOP and get your?
> cooling that way!?
>?
> Scott?
>?
> nmflyer1 at aol.com wrote:?
>> Thanks for reminding me Doug,?
>>?
>> I automatically lean for takeoff out of habit. I forgot some?
>> flatlanders (no offense) don't have to do this.?
>> Make sure you lean properly for takeoff at higher density altitudes?
>> (your engine manufacturer will have recomendations). It can mean a BIG?
>> difference in power. In some cases I have heard aircraft that takeoff?
>> without leaning actually lose RPM right after they lift off due to the?
>> cylinders slowly loading up with fuel.?
>>?
>> Kurt?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>?
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>?
> ------------------------------?
>?
> Message: 4?
> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:34:41 -0500?
> From: "Terry Miles" <terrence_miles at hotmail.com>?
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Leaning at High DA Airports; was Re: Static?
> RPM Question?
> To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'"?
> <reflector at tvbf.org>?
> Message-ID: <BAY141-DS7AF763F38548B7FADEB80F2FE0 at phx.gbl>?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"?
>?
> Dear all,?
> Well I want in on this thread too. It comes at a perfect time for me. I > am?
> planning a trip to APA which just S of DEN. Fld Elv 5800. Runway is nice > a?
> long so that is not an issue, and I know to lean to peak and then enrich?
> back to +100 or so cooler.?
>?
> Here's the thing...While I am there, there is a fly in to KLMO which a?
> little NW of DEN. Fld Elv is 5100 or so. Rnwy length is 4800 x 75. > Temps?
> have been running in the 70's so I will estimate a DA of maybe 7000. If I?
> said an XL w/ 3 people had a sea level take off run of 1200', then the > KLMO?
> takeoff run is going to be just under 3000 in calm winds. I have been?
> watching DEN metar for a week now and in the afternoon hours they get is?
> cumulus build ups with virga reported and all hell breaks loose for big > wind?
> shifts and big gusts. There is a small airshow that day. I have to get in?
> by 1100L and stay until at least 1530L or so before they open the runway > up?
> again.?
>?
> I have the 300 HP Lycoming, but my concern is coming up with a rule of > thumb?
> on landing distance. The landing runway is 29. Let's say the fld temp is?
> 75 and the winds are 250v330 10G17 (there is no weather reporting on the?
> fld). (Read I am getting thrown around pretty good in turb and the engine?
> response is sluggish compared to what I am used to. If I said my > personal?
> minimum runway length for my skill level with that wind report is 3000, > what?
> should it be when DA is 7000? I am thinking it ought to be more like 6500?
> for min runway length and 4800 is cutting close.?
>?
> I admit it. I am a flatlander. Do any of you mountain people have some?
> advice. Does anybody have a rule of thumb for this? The Koch chart > really?
> only talks about tkof and climb and not approach and landing?
>?
> Thanks?
> Terry?
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On?
> Behalf Of Scott Derrick?
> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 17:05?
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list?
> Subject: REFLECTOR: Leaning at High DA Airports; was Re: Static RPM > Question?
>?
> Never ever forget to lean a non-turbo charged airplane at high density?
> altitude airports!! We have two crashes at GNT in 10 years that probably?
> would not have happened if the pilots had leaned the engine.?
>?
> I was there for one and kept thinking "Lean it out! Lean it out!" but he?
> crashed instead. The engine will run like SHIT, if you don't!?
>?
> In the summer afternoons in northern NM, just about every airport is above?
> 8,000 DA, and some like GNT are pushing 10,000. The DA is so high you > can't?
> hurt the engine with full power and lean to max RPM, because the engine is?
> making way less than 75% power.?
>?
> If your a bit paranoid about it or DA is 6-8K, lean to best RPM, then > richen?
> to get about 25-50 RPM drop., no more than that though. Once your > 500-1000?
> above ground level you can richen the mixture some to get some cooling if?
> you need it. Better yet go to 75 LOP and get your cooling that way!?
>?
> Scott?
>?
> nmflyer1 at aol.com wrote:?
>> Thanks for reminding me Doug,?
>>?
>> I automatically lean for takeoff out of habit. I forgot some?
>> flatlanders (no offense) don't have to do this.?
>> Make sure you lean properly for takeoff at higher density altitudes?
>> (your engine manufacturer will have recomendations). It can mean a BIG?
>> difference in power. In some cases I have heard aircraft that takeoff?
>> without leaning actually lose RPM right after they lift off due to the?
>> cylinders slowly loading up with fuel.?
>>?
>> Kurt?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> ------------------------------?
>?
> Message: 5?
> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:23:15 -0400?
> From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen at dts9000.com>?
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Leaning at High DA Airports; was Re: Static?
> RPM Question?
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>?
> Message-ID: <8984A39879F2F5418251CBEEC9C689B30104A295 at lucky.dts.local>?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"?
>?
> Terry,?
>?
> Three weeks ago, I flew into CO into JeffCo, aka, Jefferson County, aka > Rocky Mountain Regional, aka Metropolitan, aka BJC. After a 'wild ride' > through the mid afternoon wind and turbulence dropping down off the > mountains and nearby thunderstorms and virga, I was relieved to pull off > the taxiway onto the ramp to head to the FBO. As I reduced rpm, the > engine started running real rough so I kicked on the booster pump (SOP on > the flat land to add pressure to the fuel to overcome the tendency to > vaporize the fuel because of heat in the overhead injection lines) on the > IO-540, which promptly killed the engine. I then remembered where I was > at and the high 90F temps. I restarted the hot engine (thanks to Odyssey > and B&C) by pulling the mixture off until the engine caught and then ran > with the mixture partially leaned for satisfactory ops.?
>?
> I was number three for Jeffco after a wild ride through the turbulence > east of DEN. The turbulence seem to abate a little as I sat up for a > right base, though another TS show was crossing the far end of the field. > Both the Cessna and Cirrus ahead of me report smooth air for landing. Did > I mention, things can change real quick??
>?
> After making an adequate landing (considering everything) and advising the > tower that they could cancel the 'smooth air' advisory, I taxied to the > ramp where a lineman signaled me into place (after the restart, right in > front of the tower, mentioned above). I cut the engine and reach around > to gather up some stuff---when I looked up, I was starting to move across > the ramp. The wind was blowing like Hades out of the NW. We got things > tied down and the lineman gave me a ride to the FBO. He said this was > common for mid afternoon as the TS develop, even though it was just spotty > cells, and the wind comes down off the mountain, then toward late > afternoon/evening, it dies back down again. A King Air landed right after > me and the pilot came into the office and remarked, 'well, that was > certainly fun'.?
>?
> Since I wanted to fly from DEN to Knoxville, TN in a single leg, I topped > off both tanks, but I was alone. From the postings on here by Kurt, Scott > and other 'high flyers', I remembered to calibrate my mixture during run > up to account for the density altitude, which was something in the double > digits. It's kinda spooky to take off and look down a couple minutes > later and realize a person is already above 7000'. The high density is > when I fully appreciate the 300HP version of the 540. It really wasn't > doggy, but it certainly didn't climb like an F-15 on departure either. On > landing, I really didn't notice any difference because I was light and > headed into a 'brisk' headwind, so landing distance was meaningless.?
>?
> Terry, I would think (but don't know) that the 4800 foot of runway should > be ample, especially if the temp isn't into the 90s, though just to be > sure, it might be okay to have the passengers leave their steamer trunks > behind and not top both sides off. Happy flying and make sure you have > all of the current DEN plates, particularly the departure procedures. If > you depart VFR, there's obvious some interesting vectoring if you are > crossing the DEN airport area.?
>?
> Chuck Jensen?
>?
> Diversified Technologies?
>?
> Thanks,?
> Chuck Jensen?
>?
> Diversified Technologies?
> 2680 Westcott Blvd?
> Knoxville, TN 37931?
> Phn: 865-539-9000 x100?
> Cell: 865-406-9001?
> Fax: 865-539-9001?
> cjensen at dts9000.com?
>?
>?
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]On?
> Behalf Of Terry Miles?
> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:35 PM?
> To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'?
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Leaning at High DA Airports;was Re: Static RPM?
> Question?
>?
>?
> Dear all,?
> Well I want in on this thread too. It comes at a perfect time for me. I > am?
> planning a trip to APA which just S of DEN. Fld Elv 5800. Runway is nice > a?
> long so that is not an issue, and I know to lean to peak and then enrich?
> back to +100 or so cooler.?
>?
> Here's the thing...While I am there, there is a fly in to KLMO which a?
> little NW of DEN. Fld Elv is 5100 or so. Rnwy length is 4800 x 75. > Temps?
> have been running in the 70's so I will estimate a DA of maybe 7000. If I?
> said an XL w/ 3 people had a sea level take off run of 1200', then the > KLMO?
> takeoff run is going to be just under 3000 in calm winds. I have been?
> watching DEN metar for a week now and in the afternoon hours they get is?
> cumulus build ups with virga reported and all hell breaks loose for big > wind?
> shifts and big gusts. There is a small airshow that day. I have to get in?
> by 1100L and stay until at least 1530L or so before they open the runway > up?
> again.?
>?
> I have the 300 HP Lycoming, but my concern is coming up with a rule of > thumb?
> on landing distance. The landing runway is 29. Let's say the fld temp is?
> 75 and the winds are 250v330 10G17 (there is no weather reporting on the?
> fld). (Read I am getting thrown around pretty good in turb and the engine?
> response is sluggish compared to what I am used to. If I said my > personal?
> minimum runway length for my skill level with that wind report is 3000, > what?
> should it be when DA is 7000? I am thinking it ought to be more like 6500?
> for min runway length and 4800 is cutting close.?
>?
> I admit it. I am a flatlander. Do any of you mountain people have some?
> advice. Does anybody have a rule of thumb for this? The Koch chart > really?
> only talks about tkof and climb and not approach and landing?
>?
> Thanks?
> Terry?
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On?
> Behalf Of Scott Derrick?
> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 17:05?
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list?
> Subject: REFLECTOR: Leaning at High DA Airports; was Re: Static RPM > Question?
>?
> Never ever forget to lean a non-turbo charged airplane at high density?
> altitude airports!! We have two crashes at GNT in 10 years that probably?
> would not have happened if the pilots had leaned the engine.?
>?
> I was there for one and kept thinking "Lean it out! Lean it out!" but he?
> crashed instead. The engine will run like SHIT, if you don't!?
>?
> In the summer afternoons in northern NM, just about every airport is above?
> 8,000 DA, and some like GNT are pushing 10,000. The DA is so high you > can't?
> hurt the engine with full power and lean to max RPM, because the engine is?
> making way less than 75% power.?
>?
> If your a bit paranoid about it or DA is 6-8K, lean to best RPM, then > richen?
> to get about 25-50 RPM drop., no more than that though. Once your > 500-1000?
> above ground level you can richen the mixture some to get some cooling if?
> you need it. Better yet go to 75 LOP and get your cooling that way!?
>?
> Scott?
>?
> nmflyer1 at aol.com wrote:?
>> Thanks for reminding me Doug,?
>>?
>> I automatically lean for takeoff out of habit. I forgot some?
>> flatlanders (no offense) don't have to do this.?
>> Make sure you lean properly for takeoff at higher density altitudes?
>> (your engine manufacturer will have recomendations). It can mean a BIG?
>> difference in power. In some cases I have heard aircraft that takeoff?
>> without leaning actually lose RPM right after they lift off due to the?
>> cylinders slowly loading up with fuel.?
>>?
>> Kurt?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> To change your email address, visit > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector?
>?
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery?
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose?
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail?
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html?
>?
>?
> ------------------------------?
>?
> Message: 6?
> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:22:49 -0600?
> From: Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net>?
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Leaning at High DA Airports; was Re: Static?
> RPM Question?
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>?
> Message-ID: <4A8C0AB9.2030404 at tnstaafl.net>?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"?
>?
> Terry,?
>?
> Its really good your are thinking ahead on this.?
>?
> My experience with the V at hot & high airports is that I can easily get?
> in to a field that is too short to get out of. Unless its really short?
> I'm not to worried about landing length. That assumes you are?
> comfortable with an over the fence speed of 85-80 knots(or less). If?
> faster, all bets are off. Landing the V is all about energy management,?
> and speed is energy, too much and you will float forever..?
>?
> You have a perfect place to practice at APA, higher elevation, and?
> longer runway. If you passengers are OK about it, do a couple takeoffs?
> and landings there and see how much you use landing and departing??
> Since its 1,000 higher you should use a bit less at LMO, and it should?
> give you the confidence you need.?
>?
> One of the items we are all aware of in the mountain west is fuel load.?
> Its an easy way to adjust your take off weight. As a rule don't carry?
> any extra. I'm not talking about no minimum, always have 45-60 minutes?
> of extra fuel, but don't just fill up. An extra 20-30 gallons of fuel?
> can make a huge difference in take off distance.?
>?
> Also since you going to be at the show through the hot part of the day,?
> plan on a late departure. The temps will be comin down after 3-4, and?
> the generally the winds do to. Plan on a 5pm departure, and let those?
> temps come down in your favor. You'll have daylight until 7-8 so there?
> is no hurry.?
>?
> The winds out here can be gusty, but they also are variable. It can be?
> calm, then blowing 20-30 knots for 10-20 minutes, then calm again. Wait?
> for a calm to depart in unless it is a fairly steady breeze down the?
> runway.?
>?
> Plan on a sluggish climb, plan your path from the airport to avoid the?
> need for an aggressive climb. If unfamiliar with the airport, and its?
> mountainous plan a climb in the pattern so you can get the lay of the?
> land while safely gaining altitude.?
>?
> Its not that difficult to fly the mountains if you keep a few items?
> in mind.?
>?
> Scott?
>?
> PS, If you haven't read Imeson's book, Mountain Flying, get it now.?
> http://www.mountainflying.com/products/mfbr_info.html?
>?
>?
>?
> Terry Miles wrote:?
>> Dear all,?
>> Well I want in on this thread too. It comes at a perfect time for me. I >> am?
>> planning a trip to APA which just S of DEN. Fld Elv 5800. Runway is >> nice a?
>> long so that is not an issue, and I know to lean to peak and then enrich?
>> back to +100 or so cooler.?
>>?
>> Here's the thing...While I am there, there is a fly in to KLMO which a?
>> little NW of DEN. Fld Elv is 5100 or so. Rnwy length is 4800 x 75. >> Temps?
>> have been running in the 70's so I will estimate a DA of maybe 7000. If >> I?
>> said an XL w/ 3 people had a sea level take off run of 1200', then the >> KLMO?
>> takeoff run is going to be just under 3000 in calm winds. I have been?
>> watching DEN metar for a week now and in the afternoon hours they get is?
>> cumulus build ups with virga reported and all hell breaks loose for big >> wind?
>> shifts and big gusts. There is a small airshow that day. I have to get >> in?
>> by 1100L and stay until at least 1530L or so before they open the runway >> up?
>> again.?
>>?
>> I have the 300 HP Lycoming, but my concern is coming up with a rule of >> thumb?
>> on landing distance. The landing runway is 29. Let's say the fld temp >> is?
>> 75 and the winds are 250v330 10G17 (there is no weather reporting on the?
>> fld). (Read I am getting thrown around pretty good in turb and the engine?
>> response is sluggish compared to what I am used to. If I said my >> personal?
>> minimum runway length for my skill level with that wind report is 3000, >> what?
>> should it be when DA is 7000? I am thinking it ought to be more like >> 6500?
>> for min runway length and 4800 is cutting close.?
>>?
>> I admit it. I am a flatlander. Do any of you mountain people have some?
>> advice. Does anybody have a rule of thumb for this? The Koch chart >> really?
>> only talks about tkof and climb and not approach and landing?
>>?
>> Thanks?
>> Terry?
>>?
>> -----Original Message-----?
>> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On?
>> Behalf Of Scott Derrick?
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 17:05?
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list?
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Leaning at High DA Airports; was Re: Static RPM >> Question?
>>?
>> Never ever forget to lean a non-turbo charged airplane at high density?
>> altitude airports!! We have two crashes at GNT in 10 years that probably?
>> would not have happened if the pilots had leaned the engine.?
>>?
>> I was there for one and kept thinking "Lean it out! Lean it out!" but he?
>> crashed instead. The engine will run like SHIT, if you don't!?
>>?
>> In the summer afternoons in northern NM, just about every airport is >> above?
>> 8,000 DA, and some like GNT are pushing 10,000. The DA is so high you >> can't?
>> hurt the engine with full power and lean to max RPM, because the engine >> is?
>> making way less than 75% power.?
>>?
>> If your a bit paranoid about it or DA is 6-8K, lean to best RPM, then >> richen?
>> to get about 25-50 RPM drop., no more than that though. Once your >> 500-1000?
>> above ground level you can richen the mixture some to get some cooling if?
>> you need it. Better yet go to 75 LOP and get your cooling that way!?
>>?
>> Scott?
>>?
>> nmflyer1 at aol.com wrote:?
>>?
>>> Thanks for reminding me Doug,?
>>>?
>>> I automatically lean for takeoff out of habit. I forgot some?
>>> flatlanders (no offense) don't have to do this.?
>>> Make sure you lean properly for takeoff at higher density altitudes?
>>> (your engine manufacturer will have recomendations). It can mean a BIG?
>>> difference in power. In some cases I have heard aircraft that takeoff?
>>> without leaning actually lose RPM right after they lift off due to the?
>>> cylinders slowly loading up with fuel.?
>>>?
>>> Kurt?
>>>?
>>>?
>>>?
>>>?
>>?
>>?
>> _______________________________________________?
>> To change your email address, visit >> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector?
>>?
>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery?
>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose?
>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail?
>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html?
>>?
>>?
>?
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