REFLECTOR: Franklin Magneto/inspection/priming questions

Carl Hoffman hoffman3 at erols.com
Tue Aug 4 17:13:17 CDT 2009


I prime all 6 cylinders of my Franklin with AN4023-1 Discharge Elbows, Page 113 of the latest AS catalog. 2D flare fittings and silver solder is required.
A Parker electric solenoid engine primer valve, AS P/N 05-04368, page 168 is used.

Carl Hoffman
 

---- Original message ----
>Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:50:40 -0500
>From: John Dibble <aminetech at bluefrog.com>  
>Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Franklin Magneto/inspection/priming questions  
>To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>
>   Where can I get 2 of them?
>
>   Michael Watson wrote:
>
>     John,
>
>     The PZL nozzles injects a fine misty fuel spray into the manifold, not enough
>     to cause fuel run back to the carb. I'm in Florida now so I only need two to
>     three
>     seconds to get engine start on the first or second rotation. When I lived In New
>     York, during the winter, 3 to 4 seconds would do the job.
>      
>     On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:50 AM, John Dibble <aminetech at bluefrog.com> wrote:
>
>       Sorry, Larry, I'm not ignoring your advice and will check if I have the spray
>       nozzle
>       and if not, look into installing one.  This will take time and given that I
>       have 700
>       hours without incident and know how to avoid fuel flowing out the induction, I
>       have
>       other higher priorities to address first.  That said, it seems like priming
>       while the
>       engine is already turning would be an even safer, if not failsafe, procedure
>       that I can
>       use immediately.  Since this procedure is not normal, I wanted to solicit
>       comments from
>       the wealth of knowledge on the reflector.
>       I prefer to think of my self as difficult, but not impossible, to help.  I am
>       curious
>       to know what you see on the ground below your air intake after priming for 5
>       seconds
>       without turning the engine.
>        
>       John
>        
>        
>
>       Laurence Coen wrote:
>
>       > John,
>       >
>       > I tried to help you, Mike Watson tried to help you but now I think you are
>       > beyond help.
>       >
>       > Larry
>       >
>       > --------------------------------------------------
>       > From: "John Dibble" <aminetech at bluefrog.com>
>       > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 7:40 PM
>       > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>       > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Franklin Magneto/inspection/priming questions
>       >
>       > > I think I might try using the primer while the engine is cranking, unless
>       > > there is a
>       > > reason not to.
>       > >
>       > > John
>       > >
>       > > Laurence Coen wrote:
>       > >
>       > >> John,
>       > >>
>       > >> I've never had a no-start.  Your description of raw gas flowing out the
>       > >> induction would indicate to me that your primer has no nozzle and dumps a
>       > >> solid stream of fuel into the manifold.  There are two things wrong with
>       > >> that, if that is the case.  First you will dump a lot of fuel in a very
>       > >> short time making it difficult to do it right.  Second, liquid fuel
>       > >> doesn't
>       > >> burn but vapors do.  A nozzle both meters the fuel and atomizes it which
>       > >> improves vaporization.  If you have a 1/8" pipe fitting into the manifold
>       > >> with no nozzle then that is your problem, not location.
>       > >>
>       > >> Raw fuel running out of the induction system has been the cause of quite
>       > >> a
>       > >> number of engine fires on start-up.
>       > >>
>       > >> Larry Coen
>       > >> N136LC
>       > >>
>       > >> --------------------------------------------------
>       > >> From: "John Dibble" <aminetech at bluefrog.com>
>       > >> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 10:55 AM
>       > >> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>       > >> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Franklin Magneto/inspection/priming questions
>       > >>
>       > >> > Larry,
>       > >> > I have a similar prime setup.  Have you ever primed and not started?
>       > >> > Mine
>       > >> > is connected
>       > >> > to the front primer port and the fuel will pour out the carb if I do
>       > >> > not
>       > >> > start
>       > >> > imediately.  I'm considering moving it to the middle or rear port, but
>       > >> > want to know if
>       > >> > it will do any good.
>       > >> >
>       > >> > John
>       > >> >
>       > >> > Laurence Coen wrote:
>       > >> >
>       > >> >> Jeff,
>       > >> >>
>       > >> >> I too have a Goodman engine that sat for about five years.  It sounds
>       > >> >> like
>       > >> >> you took good care of it while it was in storage so I don't think you
>       > >> >> need
>       > >> >> to do much but put in fresh oil and fire it up.  That is what I did
>       > >> >> and
>       > >> >> three years later it is running fine with compressions running 79/80.
>       > >> >>
>       > >> >> Priming is something you will need.  Priming by pumping the throttle
>       > >> >> with
>       > >> >> an
>       > >> >> updraft carb is an engine fire waiting to happen.  There are primer
>       > >> >> manifolds that mount on the bottom of the intake manifolds but they're
>       > >> >> pricey.  I built my own primer system that works very well.  I
>       > >> >> pressurize
>       > >> >> the fuel system with the electric pump and have a solenoid valve that
>       > >> >> is
>       > >> >> operated with push button on the panel.  I inject fuel into the center
>       > >> >> primer ports on both sides of the engine.  I made my own injectors
>       > >> >> from
>       > >> >> 1/8"
>       > >> >> flare to 1/8" pipe elbows.  The injector nozzle is a brass screw
>       > >> >> threaded
>       > >> >> into the elbow and center drilled with a #60 drill.  Two to five
>       > >> >> seconds
>       > >> >> prime, depending on temp, does the job.
>       > >> >>
>       > >> >> Larry Coen
>       > >> >> N136LC
>       > >> >> SE/RG Franklin/IVO
>       > >> >>
>       > >> >> --------------------------------------------------
>       > >> >> From: "Jeff Clough" <jclough48 at comcast.net>
>       > >> >> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:23 AM
>       > >> >> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>       > >> >> Subject: REFLECTOR: Franklin Magneto/inspection/priming questions
>       > >> >>
>       > >> >> > FINALLY getting around to hooking up my Franklin engine to hopefully
>       > >> >> > test fire it soon......a few questions:
>       > >> >> >  1:   I have Rose dual ignition....am planning on using 1/2 of this
>       > >> >> > set
>       > >> >> > up for one set of spark plugs and a magneto for the other set of
>       > >> >> > plugs....what magneto               are others using and where can I
>       > >> >> > get
>       > >> >> > one????
>       > >> >> > 2:  How did others route/support their ignition wires through/under
>       > >> >> > the
>       > >> >> > Franklin plenum....got any pictures you can send to me off Reflector
>       > >> >> > ??
>       > >> >> > 3:  I purchased my engine new from Pat Goodman back in about 1997 (I
>       > >> >> > think).....He had test run it, but it has not been run since then.
>       > >> >> > I
>       > >> >> > removed the plugs              and put oil in the cylinders several
>       > >> >> > time
>       > >> >> > over the ensuing years , the engine has been in a hangar here in DRY
>       > >> >> > Colorado or in my heated garage in Alaska         in the subsequent
>       > >> >> > years....should it be inspected or have gaskets replaced etc????  I
>       > >> >> > think there are some Franklin pros in Ft Collins CO (about 1 hour
>       > >> >> >      away)...should I pull the engine off (again) and take it to
>       > >> >> > them
>       > >> >> > for inspection/servicing or should I run it for a while on my
>       > >> >> > airframe
>       > >> >> > (break it in on my                      airframe  while on the
>       > >> >> > ground
>       > >> >> > and then (perhaps?) have it inspected/serviced ??
>       > >> >> > 4:   I currently DO NOT have a priming system......is it necessary
>       > >> >> > to
>       > >> >> > have one or will the engine start w/out it just by cranking a bit
>       > >> >> > longer???  If I need a priming           system , is there a
>       > >> >> > packaged
>       > >> >> > system available??
>       > >> >> >
>       > >> >> > Thanx for all your input(s)       Jeff C      Brighton CO     173RG
>       > >> >> > Clamshell  IVO Franklin
>       > >> >> > _______________________________________________
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>       > >>
>       > >> >>   
>       ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>       > >> >>
>       > >> >> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>       > >> >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>       > >> >> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.12.45/2141 - Release Date:
>       > >> >> 5/29/2009 6:28 AM
>       > >> >
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>       > >> 5/29/2009 6:28 AM
>       > >
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>       6:28 AM
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>      
>
>     --
>     Mike W.
>     1997 Velocity Elite RG
>     Franklin /IVO Electric CS
>     Dual GRT EFIS HX Synthetic Vision
>
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