REFLECTOR: Franklin Magneto/inspection/priming questions

Michael Watson mikewatsspg at gmail.com
Tue Aug 4 10:32:32 CDT 2009 

John,

The PZL nozzles injects a fine misty fuel spray into the manifold, not
enough
to cause fuel run back to the carb. I'm in Florida now so I only need two to
three
seconds to get engine start on the first or second rotation. When I lived In
New
York, during the winter, 3 to 4 seconds would do the job.

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:50 AM, John Dibble <aminetech at bluefrog.com> wrote:

> Sorry, Larry, I'm not ignoring your advice and will check if I have the
> spray nozzle
> and if not, look into installing one.  This will take time and given that I
> have 700
> hours without incident and know how to avoid fuel flowing out the
> induction, I have
> other higher priorities to address first.  That said, it seems like priming
> while the
> engine is already turning would be an even safer, if not failsafe,
> procedure that I can
> use immediately.  Since this procedure is not normal, I wanted to solicit
> comments from
> the wealth of knowledge on the reflector.
> I prefer to think of my self as difficult, but not impossible, to help.  I
> am curious
> to know what you see on the ground below your air intake after priming for
> 5 seconds
> without turning the engine.
>
> John
>
>
>
> Laurence Coen wrote:
>
> > John,
> >
> > I tried to help you, Mike Watson tried to help you but now I think you
> are
> > beyond help.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------
> > From: "John Dibble" <aminetech at bluefrog.com>
> > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 7:40 PM
> > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Franklin Magneto/inspection/priming questions
> >
> > > I think I might try using the primer while the engine is cranking,
> unless
> > > there is a
> > > reason not to.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > Laurence Coen wrote:
> > >
> > >> John,
> > >>
> > >> I've never had a no-start.  Your description of raw gas flowing out
> the
> > >> induction would indicate to me that your primer has no nozzle and
> dumps a
> > >> solid stream of fuel into the manifold.  There are two things wrong
> with
> > >> that, if that is the case.  First you will dump a lot of fuel in a
> very
> > >> short time making it difficult to do it right.  Second, liquid fuel
> > >> doesn't
> > >> burn but vapors do.  A nozzle both meters the fuel and atomizes it
> which
> > >> improves vaporization.  If you have a 1/8" pipe fitting into the
> manifold
> > >> with no nozzle then that is your problem, not location.
> > >>
> > >> Raw fuel running out of the induction system has been the cause of
> quite
> > >> a
> > >> number of engine fires on start-up.
> > >>
> > >> Larry Coen
> > >> N136LC
> > >>
> > >> --------------------------------------------------
> > >> From: "John Dibble" <aminetech at bluefrog.com>
> > >> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 10:55 AM
> > >> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > >> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Franklin Magneto/inspection/priming questions
> > >>
> > >> > Larry,
> > >> > I have a similar prime setup.  Have you ever primed and not started?
> > >> > Mine
> > >> > is connected
> > >> > to the front primer port and the fuel will pour out the carb if I do
> > >> > not
> > >> > start
> > >> > imediately.  I'm considering moving it to the middle or rear port,
> but
> > >> > want to know if
> > >> > it will do any good.
> > >> >
> > >> > John
> > >> >
> > >> > Laurence Coen wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> Jeff,
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I too have a Goodman engine that sat for about five years.  It
> sounds
> > >> >> like
> > >> >> you took good care of it while it was in storage so I don't think
> you
> > >> >> need
> > >> >> to do much but put in fresh oil and fire it up.  That is what I did
> > >> >> and
> > >> >> three years later it is running fine with compressions running
> 79/80.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Priming is something you will need.  Priming by pumping the
> throttle
> > >> >> with
> > >> >> an
> > >> >> updraft carb is an engine fire waiting to happen.  There are primer
> > >> >> manifolds that mount on the bottom of the intake manifolds but
> they're
> > >> >> pricey.  I built my own primer system that works very well.  I
> > >> >> pressurize
> > >> >> the fuel system with the electric pump and have a solenoid valve
> that
> > >> >> is
> > >> >> operated with push button on the panel.  I inject fuel into the
> center
> > >> >> primer ports on both sides of the engine.  I made my own injectors
> > >> >> from
> > >> >> 1/8"
> > >> >> flare to 1/8" pipe elbows.  The injector nozzle is a brass screw
> > >> >> threaded
> > >> >> into the elbow and center drilled with a #60 drill.  Two to five
> > >> >> seconds
> > >> >> prime, depending on temp, does the job.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Larry Coen
> > >> >> N136LC
> > >> >> SE/RG Franklin/IVO
> > >> >>
> > >> >> --------------------------------------------------
> > >> >> From: "Jeff Clough" <jclough48 at comcast.net>
> > >> >> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:23 AM
> > >> >> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <
> reflector at tvbf.org>
> > >> >> Subject: REFLECTOR: Franklin Magneto/inspection/priming questions
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > FINALLY getting around to hooking up my Franklin engine to
> hopefully
> > >> >> > test fire it soon......a few questions:
> > >> >> >  1:   I have Rose dual ignition....am planning on using 1/2 of
> this
> > >> >> > set
> > >> >> > up for one set of spark plugs and a magneto for the other set of
> > >> >> > plugs....what magneto               are others using and where
> can I
> > >> >> > get
> > >> >> > one????
> > >> >> > 2:  How did others route/support their ignition wires
> through/under
> > >> >> > the
> > >> >> > Franklin plenum....got any pictures you can send to me off
> Reflector
> > >> >> > ??
> > >> >> > 3:  I purchased my engine new from Pat Goodman back in about 1997
> (I
> > >> >> > think).....He had test run it, but it has not been run since
> then.
> > >> >> > I
> > >> >> > removed the plugs              and put oil in the cylinders
> several
> > >> >> > time
> > >> >> > over the ensuing years , the engine has been in a hangar here in
> DRY
> > >> >> > Colorado or in my heated garage in Alaska         in the
> subsequent
> > >> >> > years....should it be inspected or have gaskets replaced etc????
>  I
> > >> >> > think there are some Franklin pros in Ft Collins CO (about 1 hour
> > >> >> >      away)...should I pull the engine off (again) and take it to
> > >> >> > them
> > >> >> > for inspection/servicing or should I run it for a while on my
> > >> >> > airframe
> > >> >> > (break it in on my                      airframe  while on the
> > >> >> > ground
> > >> >> > and then (perhaps?) have it inspected/serviced ??
> > >> >> > 4:   I currently DO NOT have a priming system......is it
> necessary
> > >> >> > to
> > >> >> > have one or will the engine start w/out it just by cranking a bit
> > >> >> > longer???  If I need a priming           system , is there a
> > >> >> > packaged
> > >> >> > system available??
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Thanx for all your input(s)       Jeff C      Brighton CO
> 173RG
> > >> >> > Clamshell  IVO Franklin
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> > >> >>
>  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> > >> >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> > >> >> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.12.45/2141 - Release Date:
> > >> >> 5/29/2009 6:28 AM
> > >> >
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> > >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> > >> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.12.45/2141 - Release Date:
> > >> 5/29/2009 6:28 AM
> > >
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> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.12.45/2141 - Release Date:
> 5/29/2009 6:28 AM
>
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-- 
Mike W.
1997 Velocity Elite RG
Franklin /IVO Electric CS
Dual GRT EFIS HX Synthetic Vision
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