REFLECTOR: Transponder and Radio issues

Scott Derrick scott at tnstaafl.net
Sun Apr 12 20:58:28 CDT 2009


When I flew my Velocity home from Florida, the first flight that I ever
requested radar services in the V was the flight home from Valkeria. 
The plan was a direct course north through Orlando's class B airspace. 
5 minutes after my initial request we figured out I was sans
transponder. A couple 90 degree turns later I was cleared right through
the middle, radar identified and primary only.   I will admit there are
some class B's(Vegas is one) I wouldn't even request a primary only
clearance without prior permission, as is specified in the FARs, but
many are very cool about it and realize transponders fail sometimes but
you still have to get home.

I  received flight following most of the the way home to NM from the
various centers and a few approaches.  Some controllers sounded a bit
peeved, and one terminated following immediately.  90% of them were
completely fine and quite a few wanted to talk experimental, canards or
Velocity. 

There are controllers that enjoy working VFR's and there are some that
will not, under any circumstances.   The problem isn't  transponders, 
the problem is  burn out.

Scott

Jack Prock wrote:
> A few years ago, I was flying from Northern Ca. to the LA area. I didn't
> realize until airborne that I had banged my transponder antenna when washing
> the plane, and snapped it off at the base... ( Later,I couldn't see any
> problems from
> the outside, the antenna looked fine). Sac approach told me I had no
> transponder, and I was going to abort, but the controller said it was
> fine and asked me to turn 90 degrees for verification. He informed me at
> the time that primary radar could see me and to inform them of any
> altitude changes.
>
> I flew all the way to Burbank and back without a transponder. Every
> controller
> was great about it and didn't seem to have any problem. The LA area is one
> of the
> more complex areas in the country, and as long as I cooperated with
> them, it wasn't an issue, they couldn't have been nicer.
>
> Jack
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dave" <david.staten at gmail.com>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 1:27 PM
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Transponder and Radio issues
>
>
>   
>> I can appreciate what you are saying, and have no doubt it is factually
>> correct, and it makes perfect sense, however..
>>
>> My experience operationally in my particular portion of the world
>> (Texas, Central US) pretty much holds out that without Mode A they will
>> pretty much tell you to pound sand... so what reality is.. tends to be
>> an individual experience..
>>
>> Maybe for the original poster, he still had mode A, or perhaps they
>> tagged his primary target. Hopefully he gets his system back up and
>>     
> working.
>   
>> Dave
>>
>> Scott Derrick wrote:
>>     
>>> Flight following without a transponder can be done.  I've done it many
>>> times. It is discretionary on the part of the controller, but then all
>>> flight following is.
>>>
>>> I would say that usually I would not provide services without a
>>> transponder, but there are many circumstances where it is  desirable, or
>>> you know the flight and give um some slack, or your traffic is light.
>>> The ATC computer can and will track a primary target, though if it
>>> crosses/overlaps another primary target it may get confused and swap
>>> targets.  Re-identification is usually  mandatory to verify you are
>>> still tracking the correct primary target.
>>>
>>> For altitude information, you just ask the pilot and input it manually.
>>> Usually the controller will then ask you to report any altitude changes
>>> so he or she can update the data block.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> Dave wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> ATC only provides flight following to aircraft with functioning
>>>> transponders. They do not and really CANNOT provide the service to
>>>> aircraft without a transponder.. otherwise how would they be able to
>>>> differentiate that aircrafts primary target from other primary
>>>> targets. A functioning transpoder in Mode A uses the ATC assigned 4
>>>> digit code. Mode S uses a unique identifier specific to that
>>>> particular airframe article.
>>>>
>>>> Mode C, as others have said.. is the altitude reporting, which is a
>>>> separate function within the transponder, and is dependent on an
>>>> altitude encoder feed from within the aircraft.
>>>>
>>>> This information is available to 3rd parties such as FlightAware.
>>>>
>>>> nmflyer1 at aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> John,
>>>>>
>>>>> FlightAware doesn't use your transponder. It uses your flight
>>>>> following info that you provide to Center/Approach. You would not
>>>>> believe who can watch you and how. If you were getting flight
>>>>> following, your info is being tracked by the computers, even without
>>>>> a mode c.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kurt
>>>>>
>>>>> P.S. some interesting stories & tricks on this subject.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: aminetech at bluefrog.com
>>>>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 10:51 am
>>>>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Transponder and Radio issues
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing I forgot to mention is that the airport manager at my
>>>>> destination had followed my flight on flightaware.com (I was on
>>>>> flight following) for the entire trip.  How is that possible if the
>>>>> mode C is not being received?
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>> --- nmflyer1 at aol.com <mailto:nmflyer1 at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> From: nmflyer1 at aol.com <mailto:nmflyer1 at aol.com>
>>>>> To: reflector at tvbf.org <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Transponder and Radio issues
>>>>> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 17:11:15 -0400
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't forget to check the Ground side as well. If there is a common
>>>>> ground between these 2 pieces of equipment, that would do it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kurt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net <mailto:scott at tnstaafl.net>>
>>>>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org
>>>>> <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org>>
>>>>> Sent: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 8:57 am
>>>>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Transponder and Radio issues
>>>>>
>>>>> 1- connector problem on main bus. Check battery, buss and alternator
>>>>> connectors.
>>>>> 2- battery going south.  check battery voltage engine not running,
>>>>>           
> with
>   
>>>>> no load(12.6-13.0), with radio transmitting(12+)
>>>>> 3- alternator/regulator failure.  check battery voltage with engine
>>>>> running, no load(13.8-14.2), with radio transmitting(13.6-14.2)
>>>>> 4- noise on battery buss.  check sound of radio transmitting, engine
>>>>>           
> not
>   
>>>>> running, then engine running.
>>>>>
>>>>> I doubt your  transponder and  com  radio  are going south  at the
>>>>>           
> same
>   
>>>>> time, unless your system experienced a serious voltage spike, even
>>>>>           
> then
>   
>>>>> I'd be surprised.
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott
>>>>>
>>>>> aminetech at bluefrog.com <mailto:aminetech at bluefrog.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> This past week on my return fllight from Corpus Christi to MS, I was
>>>>>> told by 3 ATCs that they weren't receiving my mode C.  One received
>>>>>>             
> it
>   
>>>>>> briefly.  Also I was told that my radio was weak.  I receive
>>>>>> transmissions fine, but have noticed when transmitting that the
>>>>>>             
> volume
>   
>>>>>> in my headset is very loud and distorted.  My plane is 10 years old
>>>>>> with 670 hours.  Is this something to get repaired, or is it tme for
>>>>>> new equipment?
>>>>>>  > John
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
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