REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 53, Issue 4 Trim Spring fix
John Dibble
aminetech at bluefrog.com
Fri Oct 3 06:53:49 CDT 2008
Mark,
Did you measure if this affected the canard stall speed?
John
Mark Riley wrote:
> I also ran out of nose down trim on my standard Elite RG. The fix was not to
> change the spring but to decrease the angle of attack of the canard by one
> popsicle stick at the trailing edge. This was the fix recommended by the
> factory and it worked. I simply relieved the area under the forward half of
> the canard, waxed the bolts, added micro to the bolt holes and aft half of
> the fuselage under the canard and then a little touch up paint. Problem
> completely solved in two days and no money.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of reflector-request at tvbf.org
> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 8:21 PM
> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 53, Issue 4
>
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. (no subject) (gibbons)
> 2. Re: (no subject) (John Dibble)
> 3. Re: (no subject) (steve korney)
> 4. Re: (no subject) (Al Gietzen)
> 5. Sales Contract (PUSHERPILOT at wmconnect.com)
> 6. Re: N44VF off airport landing (Scott Derrick)
> 7. Re: Sales Contract (Scott Derrick)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 11:05:06 -0700
> From: "gibbons" ?gibbons at as.net?
> Subject: REFLECTOR: (no subject)
> To: ?reflector at tvbf.org?
> Message-ID: ?000501c924b9$68e11160$6601a8c0 at desktop1?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Elevator spring strength. Can you put more ply's on the spring to help
> with trimming the nose down. If so how many ply's? Would that be uni,
> bid. Would the plys be on the inside or outside of the springs?
> Thanks
> Barry
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 15:13:08 -0500
> From: John Dibble ?aminetech at bluefrog.com?
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: (no subject)
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list ?reflector at tvbf.org?
> Message-ID: ?48E52B54.E6596CC7 at bluefrog.com?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I had my trim motor relay fail during descent and had to fight the trim
> spring during approach and landing. I landed at 90 kn and it took all
> the strength I could muster. I wouldn't want a stiffer spring.
> Reversing the sparrow strainer will provide more trim than you will
> need.
>
> John
>
> gibbons wrote:
>
> ? Elevator spring strength. Can you put more ply's on the spring to help
> ? with trimming the nose down. If so how many ply's? Would that be uni,
> ? bid. Would the plys be on the inside or outside of the springs?
> ?
> ? Thanks
> ? Barry
> ?
> ? ----------------------------------------------------------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 20:28:18 +0000
> From: steve korney ?s_korney at hotmail.com?
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: (no subject)
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list ?reflector at tvbf.org?
> Message-ID: ?BAY108-W2642418611BCCE3459F60E73D0 at phx.gbl?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> John....
>
> Your stirring a hornets nest....lol...
>
> Best... Steve
>
> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 15:13:08 -0500
> From: aminetech at bluefrog.com
> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: (no subject)
>
> I had my trim motor relay fail during descent and had to fight the trim
> spring during approach and landing. I landed at 90 kn and it took
> all the strength I could muster. I wouldn't want a stiffer spring.
> Reversing the sparrow strainer will provide more trim than you will need.
> John
> gibbons wrote:
>
> Elevator spring strength. Can you put
> more ply's on the spring to help with trimming the nose down. If
> so how many ply's? Would that be uni, bid. Would the plys be on the inside
> or outside of the springs?
> Thanks
>
> Barry
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 15:40:18 -0800
> From: "Al Gietzen" ?ALVentures at cox.net?
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: (no subject)
> To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'"
> ?reflector at tvbf.org?
> Message-ID: ?3EDA207D92B14ED8AEA078492117E7BD at BigAl?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Elevator spring strength. Can you put more ply's on the spring to help with
> trimming the nose down. If so how many ply's? Would that be uni, bid. Would
> the plys be on the inside or outside of the springs?
>
> Thanks
> Barry
>
> Barry;
>
> FWIW; maybe the question is 'why don't you have enough down trim?' My
> criteria on the spring was that you had to be able to get nearly full
> elevator when the trim motor was run to the full extent in the opposite
> direction. This being a safety factor in the case where the motor runs to
> its limit for unknown reasons. I now recall two incidents reported over the
> recent years where this did occur.
>
> So that meant for me that I had to trim (as in cut) the trim spring narrower
> - down to I guess about 2" width on my SE.
>
> When I first began flying, I found that at the high speed end I didn't have
> enough nose down trim. I also found that the stall speed was too high. The
> conclusion was there was too much canard lift; and yeah, I had used the
> factory incidence gauge on a WingCo canard - having not been told that the
> WingCo canard needed a bit less incidence. Reducing the canard incidence by
> 2 stir stick thickness under the leading edge of the incidence gauge solved
> the nose down trim problem, and brought the stall speed down to about 70
> Kts.
>
> BTW; I think all small dimensions on these kits are measured in stir stick
> thicknesses:-).
>
> Best,
>
> Al
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 18:42:17 EDT
> From: PUSHERPILOT at wmconnect.com
> Subject: REFLECTOR: Sales Contract
> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> Message-ID: ?c10.468f360c.3616a849 at wmconnect.com?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Does anyone have a sales contract for an experimental aircraft? I recall
> seeing one somewhere that said "aircraft was built by an amateur builder,
> etc."
> but I can't find it now.
>
> Mel Bina N14B
> STD RG For Sale ?/HTML?
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 16:55:15 -0600
> From: Scott Derrick ?scott at tnstaafl.net?
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: N44VF off airport landing
> To: Brett Ferrell ?reflector at velocityxl.com?, Velocity Aircraft Owners
> and Builders list ?reflector at tvbf.org?
> Message-ID: ?48E55153.6040408 at tnstaafl.net?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> That was one excellent landing by Elizabeth!! She saved both your lives
> and the plane! Major kudo's to her!
>
> You should be able to tell what happened to the oil line by examining
> the end. Interesting to see what the problem was.
>
> Scott
>
> Brett Ferrell wrote:
> ? I know that folks have been anxious to hear about our off-airport landing
> this weekend. You guys have been really great with all of the well-wishs
> and kind words, and although it's been a very hectic few days I did want to
> get the information out to folks as quickly as we reasonably could.
> ?
> ? First up, let me say that I'm sorry for any negative affect that our
> incident has on our Velocity community, we're aware that we don't exist in
> isolation. Too that end, I'll mention that the FAA did downgrade this to an
> incident, so that's good news, and said that they did not believe that any
> 'action' was warranted or some such, which I took to mean we were in pretty
> good shape. Second, let me say that Elizabeth did a great job of flying us
> to the road, and I feel that this is directly related to the excellent
> training she received, first from the factory, and then with Dave Bertram
> who did her high power XL and EFIS transition training. I really recommend
> folks avail themselves of these resources, you are worth the investment.
> ?
> ? Next I'll say that we did get, on the whole, decent reporting. Maybe
> that's because we landed in Mayberry, RFD, but it was refreshing. You can
> check out the stories below if you'd like.
> ? http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008809280516
> ? http://www.fox41.com/Global/story.asp?S=9085833
> ? http://www.wesh.com/news/17574062/detail.html
> ?
> ? So, here are the top line facts, and if you'd like to read a fully
> accounting you can do so at our website:
> ? http://n44vf.velocityxl.com/incident.php
> ?
> ? While in cruise flight at about 160 kts and 2,500' MSL below a solid
> overcast layer en route to Rough River, we blew the hard tubed oil line to
> the nose cooler at a 3-way valve. That valve allows a second cooler that
> recircs cabin air in the winter to be activated. The cause of that failure
> is not yet known, but the oil pressure immediately went to 0 psi, and the
> cabin started to fill with hot oil. We weren't talking to anyone, and
> weren't able to declare an emergency before landing on Highway 3 in Otisco,
> Indiana, a two lane country road. We landed without major incident, but did
> strike a a reflector street post while avoiding stopped traffic on rollout.
> The engine as running at shutdown, and we believe the only damage to be
> where the pole struck the copilot wing, mid-section, which we hopeful will
> be a straightforward repair. I encourage folks to read the longer account
> to know more, and to see what an APRS tracker (as written about in a recent
> Kitplanes article) ca
> n!
> ? offer, as well as our impressions and recollections from the experience.
> ?
> ? Brett
> ? _______________________________________________
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:21:14 -0600
> From: Scott Derrick ?scott at tnstaafl.net?
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Sales Contract
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list ?reflector at tvbf.org?
> Message-ID: ?48E5657A.2030805 at tnstaafl.net?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> http://tnstaafl.net/canards/salesagreement.doc
>
> Scott
>
> PUSHERPILOT at wmconnect.com wrote:
> ? Does anyone have a sales contract for an experimental aircraft? I
> ? recall seeing one somewhere that said "aircraft was built by an amateur
> ? builder, etc." but I can't find it now.
> ?
> ? Mel Bina N14B
> ? STD RG For Sale
> ?
> ?
> ? ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ?
> ? _______________________________________________
> ? To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> ?
> ? Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> ? user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
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>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of Reflector Digest, Vol 53, Issue 4
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