REFLECTOR: Nose Wheel Steering

Andrew Ellzey ajlz72756 at yahoo.com
Thu May 8 08:11:27 CDT 2008


I'm not flying yet, but I would like to ask a question of those that are. I flew a Mooney M20E for 11 years and the nose wheel on my Mooney would try to shimmy on high speed taxi when the nose wheel had too much air in the tire. I always ran about 35 to 40 lbs of air, or just enough that I could see that the tire was squatting just a little with no one on board. I know that my Mooney didn't have the same front wheel configuration as our Velocities have, but it makes sense that an over inflated tire would contribute to the problem if the load was only riding on the center of the tread. 
 
Just a thought,
 
Andy Ellzey



----- Original Message ----
From: Chuck Jensen <cjensen at dts9000.com>
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2008 6:43:14 AM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Nose Wheel Steering


Mack,
I agree that cross control works but it takes more timing and precision than landing in a crab.  It's a little disconcerting at first, landing crooked, but as noted by many, the nose just swings around for alignment with no stress or bother when the mains touch.  Cross controlling seems to leave one more sensitive to drift if there's much of a crosswind, if one is a little high, a little fast and things float a little.  Yea, I know, it's probably not happened to you and most of the others, but practice and precision are sold in 5 pound bags and they had to break a package to sell me just short of a pound.
 
Landing in a crab has worked so well, I'm scerd that some will say I'm nuts and that I misinterpreted the correct technique and don't ever, never, land in a crab---then I'd be really lost.
 
As an aside, I think part of the reason crab landing works so well in a Velo is weight distribution.  In a regular tractor configuration. the weight (engine) is way out front of the pivot point (gear) so there is a lot of mass to move left/right to come into alignment at touchdown.  In comparison, the main mass of the Velo is closer to the pivot point AND behind the pivot point, so the area of the plane that has to move furtherest to come into alignment, the nose, weighs next to nothing, thus the gear is not overstress and the whole process is smooth and non-violent.  

Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]On Behalf Of MMurp16900 at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 11:23 PM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Nose Wheel Steering

Hi Chuck
with toe brake mod.it is possible to cross control and never land in a crab.
We do have ken,s lock but only necessary for heavy weight landings.
Mack
 
In a message dated 5/7/2008 1:17:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cjensen at dts9000.com writes:
Not to worry.  Landing in a crab in the preferred method, not a slip.  As soon as the mains touch, the nose swings right around for alignment before the nose ever touches down, so not an issue.  I can't imagine landing nose wheel first.  I suppose its possible, but if one did, having a locked nose wheel would be the least of the problems.
 
One can actually turn off the runway with the nose wheel locked.  The angular change isn't much to hit a high speed taxi way and a couple taps of the brakes will do it.  A 90L taxi way turn would be a little tougher.  During take off roll, aileron and/or brake tap will keep you aligned, even the the pin engaged.  It's only when you get slow and on the ramp does it become almost impossible to steer with the pin engaged.
 
Works very well indeed and there is simply nothing to be concerned about in that regard, since I've explored about every bad landing configuration imaginable and the nose gear pin is "all good."

Chuck Jensen 
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]On Behalf Of len.baxter at gm.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 1:27 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Nose Wheel Steering



Chuck 

I worry about what might happen when landing with the nose wheel locked and you touch down in a "crab" and the nose wheel touches first or similtaneously??  Seems like the nose wheel would take the plane towards the runway edge pretty quick.   Any thoughts or experence that would either support or discount my worry??? 

Thanks 


Len Baxter
XLRG 




"Chuck Jensen" <cjensen at dts9000.com> 
Sent by: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org 
05/06/2008 08:04 PM 
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Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org> 
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John,

A mistake?  Are you suggesting that I might make a mistake....of course I have!  But the question of what to do is really a two part issue.  I now engage the locking pin by pushing in the cable handle as I start may take off role.  I used to do it in the air, but I have forgotten it at least twice.  Once had no effect because my nose wheel happened to be fairly tight and there was no crosswind so it tracked without shimmy.  The other landing without the engaged pin was in a crosswind which immediately started the shimmy as the nose gear touched down at an angle.  

At that point, there is only two things to do; go missed and find a grass field or grin-n-bear it. The grass field will not initiate a shimmy (side forces, or absence of, and all those issues) but you'd better be lucky to find somebody with a wrench to tighten it.  When the shimmy started, I lifted the nose a couple times but the pin and fixture would never line up.  I went around and hoped the gear retract would cause the wheel to realign so the pin would align and engage, no luck.  I finally just grinned-n-beared it.

Now I engage the pin is as soon as I get aligned with the runway for TO, check it as I set up for cruise and check it again when I get in a landing configuration.  So far, I've never come close to forgetting using that system of redundant reminders.

Chuck Jensen


-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]On
Behalf Of John Dibble
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 2:32 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Nose Wheel Steering


Chuck, have you departed and forgot to lock it?  I'd like to know what happens in that case.

John

Chuck Jensen wrote:

> Tom,
>
> The super-duper nose wheel lock by Ken Mishler is the answer to your problem.  Controlled with a push/pull cable in the cabin, a pin slips into a mating surface mounted on the nose gear that prevents the nose gear from swiveling.  The pin is disengaged for taxiing and reengaged on the takeoff roll.  Not having to worry about shimmy, the tension on the nose wheel can be backed WAY OFF.  Taxing is then a pleasure, instead of an annoyance.  Highly recommended.
>
> Chuck Jensen

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